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Epidemics, Pandemics, Outbreak

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Miles Prower
Nov Member 2006

Miles Prower

Posts: 9,764 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
NexOrigin said :
Miles Prower said :
Beds, beds, beds. Look at the bigger picture. You could have millions of beds, not much use if the staff aren't in place to manage the patients. There is a shortage of doctors and nurses in the UK, ergo hospitals become overwhelmed.
Can you show me some data showing the shortage of doctors and nurses?


This is the latest national report for England:

https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-workforce-statistics/september-2020

Download the Excel Workbook, then navigate to the 'ESR source data' tab. 'ESR Table 1' if you want a summary, you may wish to remove the regions to see the bigger picture per Staff Group.

Vacant FTE (rounded) as at September 2020:

Additional Clinical Services - 2,678
Additional Professional Scientific and Technical - 981
Administrative and Clerical - 4,087
Allied Health Professionals - 1,377
Estates and Ancillary - 466
Healthcare Scientists - 319
Medical and Dental - 982

Nursing and Midwifery Registered - 5,057

Students - 30
Low on bank space? Click here .

31-Dec-2020 00:31:23 - Last edited on 31-Dec-2020 00:36:00 by Miles Prower

NexOrigin

NexOrigin

Posts: 2,592 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Icy Spring said :
NexOrigin said :

For example:
Nov 14th - 7,321 new cases
Nov 15th - 499 new cases
Nov 16th - 12,651 new cases
Nov 17th - 7,893 new cases
Nov 18th - 6,105 new cases
Nov 19th - 7,855 new cases
Nov 20th - 10,225 new cases
Nov 21st - 7,557 new cases
Nov 22nd - 655 new cases
Nov 23rd - 11,390 new cases
Now 24th - 6,853 new cases
Nov 25th - 2,976 new cases
Nov 26th - 209 new cases
Nov 27th - 16,680 new cases
Nov 28th - 8,257 new cases
Nov 29th - 317 new cases
Nov 30th - 10,768 new cases

Notice a pattern? There's a drastic dip the day before the high spikes. They're withholding case numbers overnight in order to pad the numbers to manipulate the data into appearing that there are far more daily cases happening than what is actually happening.

Yes, I do notice a pattern.

Nov 15th - 499 new cases (Sunday)
Nov 22nd - 655 new cases (Sunday)
Nov 29th - 317 new cases (Sunday)

It's an example of the "weekend effect" which shows test results are less likely to come back on Sunday.
Exactly, and yet, they still present the numbers as though they are spiking up thousands more than they actually are. It's a false narrative. The media still runs with these numbers. You know the 16,000 new cases on Nov 27th isn't accurate. I know it isn't accurate. But, does the average person? No, because the media pushes this narrative that these are actual new cases for that day, when in reality, it's half that amount, or less.
I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great! :)

31-Dec-2020 00:37:48

NexOrigin

NexOrigin

Posts: 2,592 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'm not sure how to interpret this:
Original message details are unavailable.

Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, there has been a significant disruption to recruitment activity within the NHS. This is apparent from the significantly lower reported advertised vacancies between March and June 2020 as the NHS was fully focused on dealing with the pandemic. Whilst pressures of the pandemic eased somewhat over the summer months, it is still apparent from the data that recruitment activity for the NHS remains disrupted.
https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-vacancies-survey/april-2015---september-2020


If they were reporting less vacancies in NHS positions... doesn't that mean... there were more doctors and nurses being recruited?
I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great! :)

31-Dec-2020 00:52:17 - Last edited on 31-Dec-2020 00:55:03 by NexOrigin

NexOrigin

NexOrigin

Posts: 2,592 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Averia Light said :
Yeah I'm not going to look at huge datasets on my phone, so I will postpone my response until I am on a computer.
I don't blame you. I can bare read the data tables on a 50" screen. There's no way I'd do it on a phone. lol
I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great! :)

31-Dec-2020 00:56:35

Miles Prower
Nov Member 2006

Miles Prower

Posts: 9,764 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
No. Trusts seek to fill shifts with bank staff where they can, and have to resort to expensive agency staff should this not be possible. The skill shortage is so big that retired staff were recalled and students were drafted in to assist with the pandemic response. None of this activity eliminates the vacancy which would be a lot cheaper to cover. Look at the data. Low on bank space? Click here .

31-Dec-2020 01:04:03

C a z
Jul Member 2005

C a z

Posts: 4,261 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
NexOrigin said :
I'm not sure how to interpret this:
Original message details are unavailable.

Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, there has been a significant disruption to recruitment activity within the NHS. This is apparent from the significantly lower reported advertised vacancies between March and June 2020 as the NHS was fully focused on dealing with the pandemic. Whilst pressures of the pandemic eased somewhat over the summer months, it is still apparent from the data that recruitment activity for the NHS remains disrupted.
https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-vacancies-survey/april-2015---september-2020


If they were reporting less vacancies in NHS positions... doesn't that mean... there were more doctors and nurses being recruited?


NO! it means they were to busy dealing with patients to be able to try and recruit more staff
Remember Caz. Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

31-Dec-2020 01:09:35

NexOrigin

NexOrigin

Posts: 2,592 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
C a z said :
NexOrigin said :
I'm not sure how to interpret this:
Original message details are unavailable.

Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, there has been a significant disruption to recruitment activity within the NHS. This is apparent from the significantly lower reported advertised vacancies between March and June 2020 as the NHS was fully focused on dealing with the pandemic. Whilst pressures of the pandemic eased somewhat over the summer months, it is still apparent from the data that recruitment activity for the NHS remains disrupted.
https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-vacancies-survey/april-2015---september-2020


If they were reporting less vacancies in NHS positions... doesn't that mean... there were more doctors and nurses being recruited?


NO! it means they were to busy dealing with patients to be able to try and recruit more staff
Are you assuming that nurses and doctors are responsible for hiring new staff? That... doesn't seem accurate. I'm pretty sure the management deals with it, not the people dealing with patients.
I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great! :)

31-Dec-2020 01:15:12

C a z
Jul Member 2005

C a z

Posts: 4,261 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
NexOrigin said :
C a z said :
NexOrigin said :
I'm not sure how to interpret this:
Original message details are unavailable.

Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, there has been a significant disruption to recruitment activity within the NHS. This is apparent from the significantly lower reported advertised vacancies between March and June 2020 as the NHS was fully focused on dealing with the pandemic. Whilst pressures of the pandemic eased somewhat over the summer months, it is still apparent from the data that recruitment activity for the NHS remains disrupted.
https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-vacancies-survey/april-2015---september-2020


If they were reporting less vacancies in NHS positions... doesn't that mean... there were more doctors and nurses being recruited?


NO! it means they were to busy dealing with patients to be able to try and recruit more staff
Are you assuming that nurses and doctors are responsible for hiring new staff? That... doesn't seem accurate. I'm pretty sure the management deals with it, not the people dealing with patients.


Are you assuming management dont deal with a full spectrum of issues?
Remember Caz. Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

31-Dec-2020 01:20:05

NexOrigin

NexOrigin

Posts: 2,592 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
C a z said :
NexOrigin said :
C a z said :
NexOrigin said :
I'm not sure how to interpret this:
Original message details are unavailable.

Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, there has been a significant disruption to recruitment activity within the NHS. This is apparent from the significantly lower reported advertised vacancies between March and June 2020 as the NHS was fully focused on dealing with the pandemic. Whilst pressures of the pandemic eased somewhat over the summer months, it is still apparent from the data that recruitment activity for the NHS remains disrupted.
https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-vacancies-survey/april-2015---september-2020


If they were reporting less vacancies in NHS positions... doesn't that mean... there were more doctors and nurses being recruited?


NO! it means they were to busy dealing with patients to be able to try and recruit more staff
Are you assuming that nurses and doctors are responsible for hiring new staff? That... doesn't seem accurate. I'm pretty sure the management deals with it, not the people dealing with patients.


Are you assuming management dont deal with a full spectrum of issues?
I'm sure they do, but, I'm pretty sure the management aren't dealing patients. Their job is to manage, not be doctors or nurses. They hire people to be doctors and nurses.
I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great! :)

31-Dec-2020 01:22:31

C a z
Jul Member 2005

C a z

Posts: 4,261 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
NexOrigin said :
C a z said :
NexOrigin said :
C a z said :
NexOrigin said :
I'm not sure how to interpret this:
Original message details are unavailable.

Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, there has been a significant disruption to recruitment activity within the NHS. This is apparent from the significantly lower reported advertised vacancies between March and June 2020 as the NHS was fully focused on dealing with the pandemic. Whilst pressures of the pandemic eased somewhat over the summer months, it is still apparent from the data that recruitment activity for the NHS remains disrupted.
https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-vacancies-survey/april-2015---september-2020


If they were reporting less vacancies in NHS positions... doesn't that mean... there were more doctors and nurses being recruited?


NO! it means they were to busy dealing with patients to be able to try and recruit more staff
Are you assuming that nurses and doctors are responsible for hiring new staff? That... doesn't seem accurate. I'm pretty sure the management deals with it, not the people dealing with patients.


Are you assuming management dont deal with a full spectrum of issues?
I'm sure they do, but, I'm pretty sure the management aren't dealing patients. Their job is to manage, not be doctors or nurses. They hire people to be doctors and nurses.


Yes, and at the moment they are trying to spread all the staff they have rather than focus on recruiting new staff....
Remember Caz. Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

31-Dec-2020 01:24:26

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