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Epidemics, Pandemics, Outbreak
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Miles Prower
said
:
NexOrigin said :
What criticism am I facing about how I handled my own affairs, and what responsibility do you believe I'm trying to absolve myself from?
Generic 'one', don't know about you personally. Right now we have people against lockdown who are at the same time moaning about wearing a piece of fabric on their face.
So you're not actually referring to me when you're talking about people trying to absolve their responsibilities?
Sure, the masks are part of the protests. But, it's more of the lockdowns than the masks. That's why they're called "lockdown protests".
I mean, some of these lockdowns are downright evil. They're basically criminalizing everyone who dares to go outside. I mean, the notion that you can be arrested for simply going outside is absurd and draconian. Some places literally turned their cities into prisons, only allowing people out for 1 hour a day between 8am and 8pm, and only within a 5km radius of their house, and those who don't comply, are arrested and charged.
And then there are the lockdowns on small businesses. The large corporations like Walmart don't have to shut down their businesses, it's only the small businesses that are affected. How can people simply accept that kind of logic from their government? The health and safety is somehow based on how big a company is?
Obviously people are going to protest against governments that are literally crushing every small business, while allowing large corporations to flourish.
Miles Prower said :
These countries have their own independent scientific groups. China wasn't allowing any non-native scientists into the country during the outbreak to study the virus. The West literally had to wait until there was an infection in their own country in order to gain a sample of the virus. All the information about the virus in the start was CCP controlled. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
NexOrigin said :
What criticism am I facing about how I handled my own affairs, and what responsibility do you believe I'm trying to absolve myself from?
Generic 'one', don't know about you personally. Right now we have people against lockdown who are at the same time moaning about wearing a piece of fabric on their face.
So you're not actually referring to me when you're talking about people trying to absolve their responsibilities?
Sure, the masks are part of the protests. But, it's more of the lockdowns than the masks. That's why they're called "lockdown protests".
I mean, some of these lockdowns are downright evil. They're basically criminalizing everyone who dares to go outside. I mean, the notion that you can be arrested for simply going outside is absurd and draconian. Some places literally turned their cities into prisons, only allowing people out for 1 hour a day between 8am and 8pm, and only within a 5km radius of their house, and those who don't comply, are arrested and charged.
And then there are the lockdowns on small businesses. The large corporations like Walmart don't have to shut down their businesses, it's only the small businesses that are affected. How can people simply accept that kind of logic from their government? The health and safety is somehow based on how big a company is?
Obviously people are going to protest against governments that are literally crushing every small business, while allowing large corporations to flourish.
Miles Prower said :
These countries have their own independent scientific groups. China wasn't allowing any non-native scientists into the country during the outbreak to study the virus. The West literally had to wait until there was an infection in their own country in order to gain a sample of the virus. All the information about the virus in the start was CCP controlled. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
07-Dec-2020 23:36:43
Miles Prower
said
:
Right? Except we are now a year down the line and we know about it. Thousands of people are still dying every day.. Yes, people with pre-existing conditions that would have ultimately died from flu (if they contracted the flu). People die every day, from all different kinds of things. It's part of life.
If you look at the statistics, there's only around a 1% death rate for the virus (which may actually be lower, as many asymptomatic people don't report an infection).
Out of that 1% or so, only 6% of those deaths only have covid listed as the cause of death. The average person who dies from covid has 2.6 other pre-existing conditions that contributed to their death. (Yeah, and let's just for argument's sake ignore pre-existing conditions such as a gunshot to the face). Those same people with the average 2.6 pre-existing conditions would have likely been the same people who died from a flu infection this year (if they caught it). It's not healthy people who dying in masses from this virus. In Canada, the average age for a covid related death is 85. The average life expectancy in Canada is 80.
Not to sound crude, but, the average person in Canada that died from covid, had already lived beyond their life expectancy. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be protected of course, but, it's important to note what kind of people are actually dying from the virus.
Miles Prower said :
Don't know about you, but masks are readily available here. Unfortunately, there are people afraid to use them because "MAH FREEDOM". It is up to the relevant authorities to enforce their use. Masks were harder to get here than toilet paper was, if that's any kind of an indication to you.
And the reason for the toilet paper shortage? Various government officials announced people should be prepared to stock up on household goods, and then used "such as toilet paper" as an example. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
Right? Except we are now a year down the line and we know about it. Thousands of people are still dying every day.. Yes, people with pre-existing conditions that would have ultimately died from flu (if they contracted the flu). People die every day, from all different kinds of things. It's part of life.
If you look at the statistics, there's only around a 1% death rate for the virus (which may actually be lower, as many asymptomatic people don't report an infection).
Out of that 1% or so, only 6% of those deaths only have covid listed as the cause of death. The average person who dies from covid has 2.6 other pre-existing conditions that contributed to their death. (Yeah, and let's just for argument's sake ignore pre-existing conditions such as a gunshot to the face). Those same people with the average 2.6 pre-existing conditions would have likely been the same people who died from a flu infection this year (if they caught it). It's not healthy people who dying in masses from this virus. In Canada, the average age for a covid related death is 85. The average life expectancy in Canada is 80.
Not to sound crude, but, the average person in Canada that died from covid, had already lived beyond their life expectancy. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be protected of course, but, it's important to note what kind of people are actually dying from the virus.
Miles Prower said :
Don't know about you, but masks are readily available here. Unfortunately, there are people afraid to use them because "MAH FREEDOM". It is up to the relevant authorities to enforce their use. Masks were harder to get here than toilet paper was, if that's any kind of an indication to you.
And the reason for the toilet paper shortage? Various government officials announced people should be prepared to stock up on household goods, and then used "such as toilet paper" as an example. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
07-Dec-2020 23:55:11 - Last edited on 08-Dec-2020 00:06:33 by NexOrigin
P.S. I'm enjoying this discussion with you btw. It's not always easy to discuss these things with people who have a difference view than I. Generally, it just devolves into people calling me names and whatnot, so I wholeheartedly appreciate your willingness to discuss this rationally.
I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
08-Dec-2020 00:10:21
Miles Prower
said
:
The problem with anti-lockdown protests is the complete disregard for the basic guidance around social distancing, mask wearing and of course large gatherings. They are about complaining about the harsh solution to a problem which they contributed towards causing. To be absolutely clear, I don't support lockdown, but it has become a necessary evil, largely because of culture. RIght. Lockdown protests bad. BLM "peaceful protests" good. At least, that's how the media and certain politicians are swinging it. They commend the BLM "peaceful protests", and condemn the lockdown protests.
I mean, statistically speaking, the BLM "peaceful protests" should have caused massive spikes, right? I mean, that's the claim that's used for the lockdown protests. Google for "blm protests cause spike in covid" and you'll immediately be presented with news media claiming that the BLM protests didn't cause any spikes in covid cases.
Does covid selectively infect people based on political ideology?
Miles Prower said :
Masks were difficult to come by many months ago. In the here and now, they are readily available, What kind of masks? Can you buy a box of N95's? Or are all the masks that being sold "surgical" type masks that aren't designed to filter viruses? I mean, sure, I can buy a box of masks here today, but, it literally says on the side of the box or the back of the bag that they do not provide protection against viral infections. You can't buy an N95 here anywhere.
Miles Prower said :
The toilet paper, hand sanitiser, dry and tinned food panic buying was ridiculous. It gave the illusion of an artificial shortage, although the government message here was - rightly - that people should not panic buy. The Canadian government told people to stock up. Then they tell people not to stock up because supplies are running out. Then more people stock up. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
The problem with anti-lockdown protests is the complete disregard for the basic guidance around social distancing, mask wearing and of course large gatherings. They are about complaining about the harsh solution to a problem which they contributed towards causing. To be absolutely clear, I don't support lockdown, but it has become a necessary evil, largely because of culture. RIght. Lockdown protests bad. BLM "peaceful protests" good. At least, that's how the media and certain politicians are swinging it. They commend the BLM "peaceful protests", and condemn the lockdown protests.
I mean, statistically speaking, the BLM "peaceful protests" should have caused massive spikes, right? I mean, that's the claim that's used for the lockdown protests. Google for "blm protests cause spike in covid" and you'll immediately be presented with news media claiming that the BLM protests didn't cause any spikes in covid cases.
Does covid selectively infect people based on political ideology?
Miles Prower said :
Masks were difficult to come by many months ago. In the here and now, they are readily available, What kind of masks? Can you buy a box of N95's? Or are all the masks that being sold "surgical" type masks that aren't designed to filter viruses? I mean, sure, I can buy a box of masks here today, but, it literally says on the side of the box or the back of the bag that they do not provide protection against viral infections. You can't buy an N95 here anywhere.
Miles Prower said :
The toilet paper, hand sanitiser, dry and tinned food panic buying was ridiculous. It gave the illusion of an artificial shortage, although the government message here was - rightly - that people should not panic buy. The Canadian government told people to stock up. Then they tell people not to stock up because supplies are running out. Then more people stock up. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
08-Dec-2020 01:03:02
Miles Prower
said
:
Lately I've become more interested in the long-term effects of COVID-19 than the mortality rate. Roughly an additional 5% having their own lives impacted for months which is fairly significant.
https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/long-covid Again, it's not the average healthy individual that this is happening to. These are people who already have pre-existing conditions.
From the article:
"The researchers discovered that older people are much more likely to get long COVID than younger people"
"Weight also plays a role, with people developing long COVID having a slightly higher average BMI than those with short COVID."
"The researchers also found that people with asthma were more likely to develop long COVID"
Those are things that we already knew. Covid affects older people more, and pre-existing conditions such obesity asthma, etc., play a huge role in how the virus affects the person. It's not the average healthy person that this is happening to. It's mainly people who have already been compromised by other health issues.
The media wants you to think that everyone is at high risk, and that everyone could potentially die if they catch the virus, but, that's not really accurate. It's people that are already have health issues that are most affected.
Miles Prower said :
And when it comes to recovery from loss of taste and smell, sufferers could be looking at an 18 month wait, or even longer...
https://www.uclh.nhs.uk/News/Pages/ResearchintorestoringlossofsmellandtasteinCOVIDpatients.aspx I haven't really looked too much into the loss of taste and smell. It's an interesting component. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
Lately I've become more interested in the long-term effects of COVID-19 than the mortality rate. Roughly an additional 5% having their own lives impacted for months which is fairly significant.
https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/long-covid Again, it's not the average healthy individual that this is happening to. These are people who already have pre-existing conditions.
From the article:
"The researchers discovered that older people are much more likely to get long COVID than younger people"
"Weight also plays a role, with people developing long COVID having a slightly higher average BMI than those with short COVID."
"The researchers also found that people with asthma were more likely to develop long COVID"
Those are things that we already knew. Covid affects older people more, and pre-existing conditions such obesity asthma, etc., play a huge role in how the virus affects the person. It's not the average healthy person that this is happening to. It's mainly people who have already been compromised by other health issues.
The media wants you to think that everyone is at high risk, and that everyone could potentially die if they catch the virus, but, that's not really accurate. It's people that are already have health issues that are most affected.
Miles Prower said :
And when it comes to recovery from loss of taste and smell, sufferers could be looking at an 18 month wait, or even longer...
https://www.uclh.nhs.uk/News/Pages/ResearchintorestoringlossofsmellandtasteinCOVIDpatients.aspx I haven't really looked too much into the loss of taste and smell. It's an interesting component. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
08-Dec-2020 01:12:42 - Last edited on 08-Dec-2020 01:15:51 by NexOrigin
Miles Prower
said
:
Protests of any kind are generally large gatherings with no social distancing and should be avoided. Can't go into detail about the political side, though. We are in a health crisis and so the right to assemble has contributed towards the spread. Where is the data to suggest protests have caused a spike in cases?
Miles Prower said :
Cloth face masks are available to purchase or make. The idea being they protect others from somebody who may already be infected. Fairly important considering asymptomatic transmission. Fairly useless considering aerosolized vapor transmission. If the meshing on your facemask is not small enough to block the virus, then efficacy of the mask decreases significantly.
I'm not sure if most people realize how much water vapor they expel every time they breathe. Canadians know, as you can literally see it in the winter when it's -40 below outside. That's one of the reasons why the Canadian government keeps downplaying the risk of aerrosolized vapor transmission. If they tell everyone, and people can literally see the moisture coming through their cloth masks, they're going to realize that the cloth mask really isn't proving the protection that is touted.
The larger droplets that the masks are touted to stop, generally fall to the ground within 6 feet and literal seconds, according to the experts. The aerosolized vapors can linger in the air for hours, and travel much further than 6 feet, basically anywhere an air current takes them.
Masks help, but, only if they're the right masks. Inefficient masks simply provide a false sense of security. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
Protests of any kind are generally large gatherings with no social distancing and should be avoided. Can't go into detail about the political side, though. We are in a health crisis and so the right to assemble has contributed towards the spread. Where is the data to suggest protests have caused a spike in cases?
Miles Prower said :
Cloth face masks are available to purchase or make. The idea being they protect others from somebody who may already be infected. Fairly important considering asymptomatic transmission. Fairly useless considering aerosolized vapor transmission. If the meshing on your facemask is not small enough to block the virus, then efficacy of the mask decreases significantly.
I'm not sure if most people realize how much water vapor they expel every time they breathe. Canadians know, as you can literally see it in the winter when it's -40 below outside. That's one of the reasons why the Canadian government keeps downplaying the risk of aerrosolized vapor transmission. If they tell everyone, and people can literally see the moisture coming through their cloth masks, they're going to realize that the cloth mask really isn't proving the protection that is touted.
The larger droplets that the masks are touted to stop, generally fall to the ground within 6 feet and literal seconds, according to the experts. The aerosolized vapors can linger in the air for hours, and travel much further than 6 feet, basically anywhere an air current takes them.
Masks help, but, only if they're the right masks. Inefficient masks simply provide a false sense of security. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
08-Dec-2020 02:34:22
Miles Prower
said
:
As you pointed out, it is not just about age. It is also about those with underlying health conditions. To be blunt we also have an obesity problem in this country which further increases the risk of a severe COVID-19 infection. Far more people in America die from obesity related issues every year than the total number of people who have died from covid in America this year.
I don't remember any obesity lockdowns though...
I would agree that obesity does play a significant role in the deaths, but, not all obese people who get the virus have serious complications or die from it. I mean, the numbers show that the vast majority of obese people infected with the virus didn't die. But those who did die, it generally played an important part. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
As you pointed out, it is not just about age. It is also about those with underlying health conditions. To be blunt we also have an obesity problem in this country which further increases the risk of a severe COVID-19 infection. Far more people in America die from obesity related issues every year than the total number of people who have died from covid in America this year.
I don't remember any obesity lockdowns though...
I would agree that obesity does play a significant role in the deaths, but, not all obese people who get the virus have serious complications or die from it. I mean, the numbers show that the vast majority of obese people infected with the virus didn't die. But those who did die, it generally played an important part. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
08-Dec-2020 02:39:59
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