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Megycal
said
:
I have read reports that there are younger people with NO pre-existing conditions that have gone on to develop long-covid. Most had not even had a severe form of the infection.
an example from the BBC new site https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rowing/54702500
I read about a new method of doing lung scans. It has shown that those who are suffering from shortness of breath have lung damage which hasn't shown up with normal scans.
edit. Found the article about lung scans
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55017301 That's an interesting rabbit hole to dive into.
It's a pretty deep hole with many branches.
I mean, take the first article for example. Remove the fact that she had covid 7 months ago, and then look at the symptoms she currently has, and try to diagnose what she's suffering from. Then try to come up with theory as to the cause of the diagnosis.
If you're staring the examination with notion that "this was caused by covid" then might actually miss the actual cause of the symptoms. Removing the covid diagnosis, you're left with a pretty standard diagnosis for depression. She went from a daily outdoor training regime to staying indoors under quarantine and lockdown for almost 7 months. That's a pretty big shock for anyone's body to go through.
What's interesting, is that according to this study, Vitamin D deficiency was found in 82.2% of COVID-19 cases:
Vitamin D is highly important in the immune system. It's what keeps the cytokine in balance. One of the side affects of the virus (along with other viruses of this kind) is the immune's system's overproduction of pro-inflammatory cytokine in an attempt to protect against the virus.
I have read reports that there are younger people with NO pre-existing conditions that have gone on to develop long-covid. Most had not even had a severe form of the infection.
an example from the BBC new site https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rowing/54702500
I read about a new method of doing lung scans. It has shown that those who are suffering from shortness of breath have lung damage which hasn't shown up with normal scans.
edit. Found the article about lung scans
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55017301 That's an interesting rabbit hole to dive into.
It's a pretty deep hole with many branches.
I mean, take the first article for example. Remove the fact that she had covid 7 months ago, and then look at the symptoms she currently has, and try to diagnose what she's suffering from. Then try to come up with theory as to the cause of the diagnosis.
If you're staring the examination with notion that "this was caused by covid" then might actually miss the actual cause of the symptoms. Removing the covid diagnosis, you're left with a pretty standard diagnosis for depression. She went from a daily outdoor training regime to staying indoors under quarantine and lockdown for almost 7 months. That's a pretty big shock for anyone's body to go through.
What's interesting, is that according to this study, Vitamin D deficiency was found in 82.2% of COVID-19 cases:
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/advance-article/doi/10.1210/clinem/dgaa733/5934827
Vitamin D is highly important in the immune system. It's what keeps the cytokine in balance. One of the side affects of the virus (along with other viruses of this kind) is the immune's system's overproduction of pro-inflammatory cytokine in an attempt to protect against the virus.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4495652/
I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
09-Dec-2020 03:24:07
Vitamin D helps reduce the proinflammatory cytokine and increases the anti-inflammatory cytokine.
There have also been countless studies about the affects of vitamin D deficiencies on mental and physical health:
Vitamin D and Depression: Where is all the Sunshine?
Vitamin D Deficiency
Vitamin D Deficiency, Its Role in Health and Disease, and Current Supplementation Recommendations
With the lockdowns going on, people are getting less sunlight than previously, which can result in vitamin D deficiencies. According a previously mentioned study, over 80% of the covid patients had a vitamin D deficiency.
People are also spending drastically longer inside their homes than previously, not only getting less vitamin D from the sunlight, but also exposing themselves to an environment that might not be as "healthy" as you might think. There have been studies on the affects of staying indoors, and the air quality issues that might present an issue.
Indoor Air Can Cause Health Problems
Why Being Cooped Up Indoors Is Seriously Bad for Your Health
Indoor Staying During Winter Season Makes People More Susceptible to Flu
Staying indoors can lead to respiratory diseases: 5 ways to improve air quality at work & home
There have also been countless studies about the affects of vitamin D deficiencies on mental and physical health:
Vitamin D and Depression: Where is all the Sunshine?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2908269/
Vitamin D Deficiency
https://medlineplus.gov/vitaminddeficiency.html
Vitamin D Deficiency, Its Role in Health and Disease, and Current Supplementation Recommendations
https://jaoa.org/article.aspx?articleid=2625276
With the lockdowns going on, people are getting less sunlight than previously, which can result in vitamin D deficiencies. According a previously mentioned study, over 80% of the covid patients had a vitamin D deficiency.
People are also spending drastically longer inside their homes than previously, not only getting less vitamin D from the sunlight, but also exposing themselves to an environment that might not be as "healthy" as you might think. There have been studies on the affects of staying indoors, and the air quality issues that might present an issue.
Indoor Air Can Cause Health Problems
https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyclopedia/content.aspx?ContentTypeID=1&ContentID=2163
Why Being Cooped Up Indoors Is Seriously Bad for Your Health
https://www.phillymag.com/be-well-philly/2012/11/30/cooped-indoors-seriously-bad-health/
Indoor Staying During Winter Season Makes People More Susceptible to Flu
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27426715/
Staying indoors can lead to respiratory diseases: 5 ways to improve air quality at work & home
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/staying-indoors-can-lead-to-respiratory-diseases-5-ways-to-improve-air-quality-at-work-home/articleshow/66747377.cms?from=mdr
I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
09-Dec-2020 03:24:20
So, in relation to the lung scaring, the same question arises as before, with the "long covid" symptoms... was it caused by the covid, or was it a result of some other influence? If you start the study with the impression that it was caused by covid, you might actually be overlooking the actual cause of the scaring.
Yes, some of the participants of the study (a very small study, just to mention, 10 people isn't exactly a large test base) did have scaring, and they did have covid. But, how many people who haven't had covid, have that same scaring? That's an important question. Could that scaring be a result of something else, such as a vitamin D deficiency coupled with adverse affects from maintaining a long term indoor lockdown?
It's a deep rabbit hole. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
Yes, some of the participants of the study (a very small study, just to mention, 10 people isn't exactly a large test base) did have scaring, and they did have covid. But, how many people who haven't had covid, have that same scaring? That's an important question. Could that scaring be a result of something else, such as a vitamin D deficiency coupled with adverse affects from maintaining a long term indoor lockdown?
It's a deep rabbit hole. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
09-Dec-2020 03:24:38
Dong U Dead
said
:
NexOrigin said :
Dong U Dead said :
The vaccine is far safer... How do you know? I mean, the vaccine developers don't even know yet. None of them have completed phase 3 trials yet, and some have had to pause their trials to address severe adverse effects that arose during the trials.
I mean, no vaccines are safe for everyone. There will always be people who are seriously debilitated or even die due to vaccines. It happens. It's just a matter of trying to ensure that the number of people it happens to is relatively low.
I don't know, this is the article asking and answering these questions... Sorry, I didn't mean "you" directly. Sometimes when I phrase things in a general manner like that, it comes out seeming more directed at the person posting it, rather than a general question. But it's a good question everyone should ask. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
NexOrigin said :
Dong U Dead said :
The vaccine is far safer... How do you know? I mean, the vaccine developers don't even know yet. None of them have completed phase 3 trials yet, and some have had to pause their trials to address severe adverse effects that arose during the trials.
I mean, no vaccines are safe for everyone. There will always be people who are seriously debilitated or even die due to vaccines. It happens. It's just a matter of trying to ensure that the number of people it happens to is relatively low.
I don't know, this is the article asking and answering these questions... Sorry, I didn't mean "you" directly. Sometimes when I phrase things in a general manner like that, it comes out seeming more directed at the person posting it, rather than a general question. But it's a good question everyone should ask. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
09-Dec-2020 03:36:29
Megycal
said
:
Why would you remove the fact she had covid-19 right before her symptoms started? NexOrigin said :
If you're starting the examination with notion that "this was caused by covid" then you might actually miss the actual cause of the symptoms.
Megycal said :
There have been far too many reports of people developing long covid symptoms after having the infection for it to be discounted Those same people all have something else in common too; they've been house bound all year long under lockdowns.
Megycal said :
Also, in her case, as a rower I doubt she had vit D deficiency before she became ill. That may be true, as the previously mentioned study showed over 80% of them had vitamin D deficiencies, which still leaves just under 20% who didn't have a vitamin D deficiency. But, she got infected right around the time the lockdowns began.
Megycal said :
Edit to add: I agree some of her symptoms are the same as when someone is depressed. Her symptoms also line up with things like "Sick Building Syndrome":
Megycal said :
Maybe depression has developed as well as the after effects of Covid. Or maybe it's only depression and / or vitamin D deficiency?
I mean, what evidence is there that she's suffering from anything other than just depression or a vitamin D deficiency, other than the fact that she had covid 7 months ago? I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
Why would you remove the fact she had covid-19 right before her symptoms started? NexOrigin said :
If you're starting the examination with notion that "this was caused by covid" then you might actually miss the actual cause of the symptoms.
Megycal said :
There have been far too many reports of people developing long covid symptoms after having the infection for it to be discounted Those same people all have something else in common too; they've been house bound all year long under lockdowns.
Megycal said :
Also, in her case, as a rower I doubt she had vit D deficiency before she became ill. That may be true, as the previously mentioned study showed over 80% of them had vitamin D deficiencies, which still leaves just under 20% who didn't have a vitamin D deficiency. But, she got infected right around the time the lockdowns began.
Megycal said :
Edit to add: I agree some of her symptoms are the same as when someone is depressed. Her symptoms also line up with things like "Sick Building Syndrome":
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2796751/
Megycal said :
Maybe depression has developed as well as the after effects of Covid. Or maybe it's only depression and / or vitamin D deficiency?
I mean, what evidence is there that she's suffering from anything other than just depression or a vitamin D deficiency, other than the fact that she had covid 7 months ago? I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
09-Dec-2020 11:56:15 - Last edited on 09-Dec-2020 11:57:33 by NexOrigin
Megycal
said
:
Even during the first lockdown we were encouraged to go out to parks etc to exercise unless you were shielding.
March 23rd, 2020:
"From this evening, I must give the British people one simple instruction: You must stay at home" ~ Boris Johnson
Doesn't really seem like he's encouraging people to go out to parks etc.
Megycal said :
I agree the new lung scanning was done on a very small sample. I'm sure more research will be carried out. It's interesting, but, being a brand new technique, there isn't much of a baseline to judge the results on just yet. It will be interesting to see where that leads.
Megycal said :
Edit to add: another link to an article about persistant symptoms after covid infection in fit healthy younger people.. All were sports people
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/54872855
"Data released by the English Institute of Sport (EIS) shows 10% of them had symptoms lasting more than 30 days, and some have not yet returned to training."
10% is a relatively low percentage, and if they haven't returned to their normal training schedule, that could be a reason for the symptoms.
I'm not dismissing that there could be lingering effects from a covid infection, but, I'm also not dismissing the possibility that there could be something else not related to covid causing the issues, as the numbers seem really low, and they all seem have the same symptoms indicate of depression, vitamin D deficiency, etc.
When you start off a diagnosis with a bias in mind, you're likely to conclude that the results were what you believed in the first place. It's called confirmation bias.
If there is something else causing the issues, it's just as important to find out what that is, as it would be to research "long covid" if "long covid" is the cause. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
Even during the first lockdown we were encouraged to go out to parks etc to exercise unless you were shielding.
March 23rd, 2020:
"From this evening, I must give the British people one simple instruction: You must stay at home" ~ Boris Johnson
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/23/uk/uk-coronavirus-lockdown-gbr-intl/index.html
Doesn't really seem like he's encouraging people to go out to parks etc.
Megycal said :
I agree the new lung scanning was done on a very small sample. I'm sure more research will be carried out. It's interesting, but, being a brand new technique, there isn't much of a baseline to judge the results on just yet. It will be interesting to see where that leads.
Megycal said :
Edit to add: another link to an article about persistant symptoms after covid infection in fit healthy younger people.. All were sports people
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/54872855
"Data released by the English Institute of Sport (EIS) shows 10% of them had symptoms lasting more than 30 days, and some have not yet returned to training."
10% is a relatively low percentage, and if they haven't returned to their normal training schedule, that could be a reason for the symptoms.
I'm not dismissing that there could be lingering effects from a covid infection, but, I'm also not dismissing the possibility that there could be something else not related to covid causing the issues, as the numbers seem really low, and they all seem have the same symptoms indicate of depression, vitamin D deficiency, etc.
When you start off a diagnosis with a bias in mind, you're likely to conclude that the results were what you believed in the first place. It's called confirmation bias.
If there is something else causing the issues, it's just as important to find out what that is, as it would be to research "long covid" if "long covid" is the cause. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
09-Dec-2020 11:56:23
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