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FiFi LaFeles said :
However, ordinary citizens tend not to carry knives in the supermarket or on the bus or in their car or in their handbag in the same way that seems to happen in other countries with guns - where having a gun is both legal and seen as prudent. Carrying a knife in the UK is illegal.. Guns are legal in Canada, just like knives are legal in the UK. But people don't walk around in Canada carrying guns. That's not legal. It's legal to have a gun, but you can't walk around with it.

FiFi LaFeles said :
Hence, we tend not to have instances of people stabbing each other over trivial disagreements in random locations, unlike shootings in general settings that I see reported from countries which have gun legality. In Canada and the US, the general population isn't going around shooting each other.

FiFi LaFeles said :
Having said that, the knife crime that we do have in the UK appears to be very much confined to "gang" related squabbles over turf, ethnicity, "disrespect" issues and similar shite and is mainly carried out by young male persons. Guess where most of the gun crimes come from in the US? It's mainly gang related violence.

FiFi LaFeles said :
Our serious criminal element do, indeed, have (illegal) guns but these are used to slaughter rivals rarely and usually very discretely. While you realize that the gun violence in the UK is mainly gangs using illegal guns, somehow you don't realize that's the same case in the US. Legal gun owners aren't out committing crimes with their guns. Those who have open carry/conceal carry permits are some of the safest gun owners in the country. They aren't the ones out randomly shooting people or committing gun crimes. It's the criminals with illegal guns that are committing gun crimes. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!

02-Mar-2021 15:53:04

FiFi LaFeles said :
I also run virtually no risk of being stabbed in the UK due to a disagreement in a grocery store or my voting preference (being expressed by a poster in my window etc). Most people in the US also run virtually no risk of being shot due to a disagreement in a grocery store or for their voting preference. You're using out of context anecdotal evidence to come to your conclusions. People in the US and Canada don't walk around in fear of being randomly shot in the grocery store because guns are legal. That's not how life here works.

I do however, understand how you end up with these conclusions. This is how the media portrays things in the US, because those who control the media also wish to control gun access. If they portray the US as some violent gun toting country, it makes it easier to convince other people that gun control laws need to be implemented, or that guns should be outlawed altogether.


If turtles are outlawed, only outlaws will have turtles.

The same applies with guns, as is seen in the UK.

Guns are outlawed, thus, only the outlaws have guns.

I think I would rather live in a place where people are permitted to protect themselves and their families.




With that being said, holy crap the UK police are stepping WAY beyond their authority these days. I only get to vicariously experience how the police in the UK operate through videos on the internet, but man, they don't seem like they're "citizens" anymore. They'll stand in large groups, arresting people for being in small groups... because "covid".

Now, obviously not all UK police are like that, I assume. Or are they? Nah, that's just bias. There must be just as many good police in the UK as bad police, right? I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!

02-Mar-2021 16:04:37

Joel said :
Also, there's an argument to be had that a person with a gun is way more dangerous than a person with a knife, the potential for more damage + being able to carry out that damage from a distance, not requiring you to literally be next to the person in order to assault them. I could stab and kill far more people with a knife without being noticed than I could shoot people with a gun without being noticed.

If I shot a gun in a crowd, everyone would know immediately. If I started stabbing people, how many people do you think I could stab before the crowd realized what was going on? And my knife isn't going to run out of ammunition either.



I get that the US has more guns per capita, but, those gun owners aren't the people committing the gun crimes. It's not the legal and registered guns and owners that are the issue. It's the illegal and unregistered guns that are being used for criminal activity.


Joel said :
So while the UK does have more of a knife crime issue that's a different challenge for the police, police don't also need knifes to combat knife crime, they have other means such as the use of tasers which are typically non-lethal. Or they just roll up and shoot people. I mean, let's not pretend that doesn't happen in the UK.

Swindon police shooting: Man dies after street row

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-wiltshire-54862787

Man shot dead by police in Coventry

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-46767730

Both of these people were unarmed when they were shot and killed by the police. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!

02-Mar-2021 16:51:12 - Last edited on 02-Mar-2021 16:52:21 by NexOrigin

02-Mar-2021 17:07:35 - Last edited on 02-Mar-2021 17:08:15 by ToP BaSS

Joel said :
So I'd still stand by how obviously in a country where there's more guns than people, police officers would also need to carry a gun. Are you assuming that all gun owners are criminals?

If almost the entirety of gun owners are responsible and law abiding citizens who only use their guns for self defense, doesn't that actually make it safer for everyone?

If a criminal has an illegal weapon and is committing a crime, wouldn't it be better if there were other citizens in the area with guns who can defend other citizens in the area with their guns, instead of having to wait for the police to arrive with their guns?


I have no issues with police forces in any country carrying guns, so long as they're being properly trained, and are only using them as a last resort, just the same as any other citizen in the US. If the entire world were armed and trained properly, there wouldn't be as much crime.



Joel said :
It's debatable at the very least - In either case you'd cause a commotion. Yes a gun is louder, but a person being attacked with a knife wouldn't necessarily be silent either, they could shout & scream etc.

Plus, with regards to what I said about you needing to go up to someone with a knife, not something you need to do with a firearm, means you could arguably stand in one position and cause damage to many people in a short space of time. In the case of a knife, you'd need to be next to each individual so running up to them and so on so there's multiple ways to look at it. It's definitely debatable. Gun vs. Knife, pros and cons. I don't think we could actually come to a definitive answer. We could also throw vehicles into the equation too, as they're used as weapons as well. Most officers are armed with a vehicle too, although, some officers get more powerful vehicles than others. Criminal car Vs. Cop Motorcycle... well, we know who would lose that one. lol I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!

02-Mar-2021 17:32:14 - Last edited on 02-Mar-2021 17:34:16 by NexOrigin

I think it's just a bit weird how the UK police are set up.
(Correct me if I'm wrong about any of this)

You have the police who have no real powers, that walk around trying to issue tickets for things like dropping a cigarette, who have to call other police, who actually have some powers to actually enforce this ticket, call other police who have guns if the situation somehow turns "dangerous".

I just think it's weird that the police have to call the police.

Low level police are like total noobs who can't actually do anything, but hope the citizens simply abide by their orders, but when citizens don't, they have to call the level 50 police, but if the level 50 police show up and are overpowered by a citizen who is a higher level than they are, they have to call in the level 99's who have higher tier weapons.

I just think it's funny.

I suppose the same somewhat applies in Canada and the US, except you don't have the noob police, there's only the standard armed police, and then the S.W.A.T. teams. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!

02-Mar-2021 17:47:00 - Last edited on 02-Mar-2021 17:47:39 by NexOrigin

Joel said :
There are community support officers (PCSOs) who are I guess part of the police staff but aren't actual officers who have powers to arrest. These are primarily (as the name suggests) there to support the community in a non-enforcement capacity. Not sure about the US but Canada has a similar sort of role (Special Constables). That's not really what Special Constables for. Special Constables have full police authority, however, they're not "general police", they police specific things, such as courthouses, public transit, etc. That's their primary policing, however, they have full police authority, and can deal with any crimes should they arise.

PCSOs on the other hand, have no power to arrest someone. A PCSO has to call a different kind of police officer to arrest someone.

Joel said :
So it's actually IMO a much better setup PCSO wants to give someone a ticket for dropping a cigarette butt or something else insignificant, and the citizen refuses to ID for the ticket, the PCSO has to call in an actual officer to ID the citizen, the citizen pulls out a weapon. the actual officer now has to call SC19 to deal with the armed citizen. In the meantime, both the PCSO and the and the actual officer are at risk while waiting for SC19 to arrive.

I dunno, that doesn't seem better somehow.


Joel said :
Such a setup in the US at this point in time just wouldn't be suitable given the gun culture and amount of guns that exist in the US. What percent of Americans do you believe carry a weapon in public? I'd be curious to know. Then I'd be curious to see your reaction to what that percentage actually is. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!

02-Mar-2021 18:38:48