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UK Police & US Police

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Aponi
Jan Member 2022

Aponi

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Pepper sprays aren't as effective as people think. Aiming a pepper spray is harder than aiming a gun. At close range, your pepper spray is useless, and it can be disarmed easily. A bad guy will have no fear trying to disarm your little bottle of chilli soup. He'll have a second thought when you hold a 9mm.

22-Jan-2021 17:19:06

FiFi LaFeles

FiFi LaFeles

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Dong U Dead said :
Is there a lot of gun violence in England??

Just about every other day someone seems to be getting shot here in NZ. I believe most of its gangs. Gangs are a huge problem in my country. What about England do you have gangs??


Per capita, there's very little gun violence here.
In 2019 there were a reported 6,759 'firearm offences' but this will include things like farmers and sportspeople not having correct authority to own/use their gun, people caught transporting a gun who don't have the correct permit ... and so on.

There were 650 actual homicides in 2019 which I think is quite modest for a population which is pushing 70 million. Not all of these were due to shootings..... it'd require a bit of a trawl through Govt statistics to define who got killed by what.

We do have gangs in the UK, of course. The ones to be afraid of are those involved in drugs and human trafficking. In the unlikely event anyone falls foul of them they are murderous. Although the activities of these gangs seem, in the main, not to impact too much on the everyday life of Joe Ordinary - they tend to kill each other far more than us nobodies.

The real pain in the ass are the youth gangs. Horrible little fuckers they are.
Le Chat Guerrier

Bwian's Towel & Grief Shop

22-Jan-2021 17:51:57 - Last edited on 22-Jan-2021 17:54:05 by FiFi LaFeles

Tenebri
Jan Member 2015

Tenebri

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Dong U Dead said :
Is there a lot of gun violence in England??

Just about every other day someone seems to be getting shot here in NZ. I believe most of its gangs. Gangs are a huge problem in my country. What about England do you have gangs??


Recorded firearm offences
In the year ending 31 March 2019, there were a total of 6,759 firearm offences recorded in the England & Wales.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7654/#:~:text=weapons%3A%20data%20tables.-,Recorded%20firearm%20offences,since%207%2C040%20in%202010%2F11.


our gun crime is fairly low, compared...
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22-Jan-2021 18:19:11

Dong U Dead

Dong U Dead

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2019 had the highest rates of gun crime and deaths involving firearms for nearly 10 years.

On a global scale, gun crime remains incredibly low in New Zealand.

For instance, in the United States there are about 106 deaths per 1 million population each year.

In each of the last two years, New Zealand recorded 2.4 gun-related deaths per million people.

But if you go back to 2014, New Zealand had less than 1 death per million people, so there has been a steep rise over the past few years:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/416881/rates-of-gun-crimes-and-killings-using-guns-at-highest-levels-in-a-decade
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22-Jan-2021 20:21:01

Maynne

Maynne

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I would like to caution everyone to keep the topic as non-political as possible.

Given that Jagex wishes not to allow politics shoptalk here in Off Topic forum. This thread in itself is very near the line since page 1.

22-Jan-2021 20:30:11

FiFi LaFeles

FiFi LaFeles

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^

Political? We're talking about guns not politicians or the rightness of wrongness of laws surrounding gun ownership or use.

Looking at raw statistics of gun related crime in several countries is not political it's merely comparing data.

Also mentioning other Police weaponry such as tasers, sprays and the like - not political.

Comparing the different types of specialist Unit in various Police forces is an exchange of information with no political under or overtone.


???
Le Chat Guerrier

Bwian's Towel & Grief Shop

22-Jan-2021 23:23:17 - Last edited on 22-Jan-2021 23:24:52 by FiFi LaFeles

Pci
Aug Member 2023

Pci

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Dong U Dead said :
Do English police carry guns in their patrol cars??


UK police have ARV's (Armed Response Vehicles) ready to deploy in all situations.
General patrol will not carry firearms other than PAVA (Which is a S5 Firearm by law, but not in this context).



FiFi LaFeles said :
Some British coppers also carry Tasers (I forgot about that).

But a report in 2019 said that out of a Force of about 123,000 Officers, only 17,000 were armed with these.


Not to mention that officers that carry taser are required to conduct annual eyesight and fitness tests to maintain their "ticket" to carry them. Sadly not all officers meet this requirement.

Aponi said :
Pepper sprays aren't as effective as people think. Aiming a pepper spray is harder than aiming a gun. At close range, your pepper spray is useless, and it can be disarmed easily. A bad guy will have no fear trying to disarm your little bottle of chilli soup. He'll have a second thought when you hold a 9mm.


UK police don't routinely carry "Pepper Spray", but use PAVA which is a stream as opposed to a spray, surprisingly this still has collateral when deployed.


On the topic of US police vs UK police, whilst the US has more firearms at their disposal each and every call to the UK call centre will be risk assessed by a higher ranking officer who has the authority to deploy an ARV if necessary, therefore reducing/elimating risk to unarmed officers.

Although, this does not negate risk in a dynamic "Active Shooter" scenario, for example that was discovered by police and not called into the control room - This makes for a challenging and sometimes scary situation.

My own opinion is that the UK Policing Model is effective in our current climate, given that the staffing levels are maintained, or better - Increased.
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23-Jan-2021 01:43:21 - Last edited on 23-Jan-2021 01:48:54 by Pci

Aeroxmaster

Aeroxmaster

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@PCI - anything you want to tell us about how you know so much detail about this? ;)

@everyone thanks for the responses. a good read. not got lots of time these days to read and respond to every single one but will go through the thread again and may respond to some here and there.

For now, enjoy an AFO/ARV officer pic. As referenced by some such as Fifi, yes there are tasers that UK police can have but only specially trained officers get these. The majority of officers do not have those either.

02-Mar-2021 00:15:19

NexOrigin

NexOrigin

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A  Cole said :
Briar Queen said :
I can't speak for whatever weird policies the UK has to not arm their public defense officials with firearms
They're not needed because the general public do not have them. A well trained officer can still get the better of the majority of criminals without the use of excessive force.

FiFi LaFeles said :
I wouldn't like to live in a society where people were shooting each other, and being shot at in retaliation, for such things as an argument in a grocery store or their voting preference.
How many stabbings does the UK have? I mean, sure, there aren't too many "mass shootings" in the UK, but, "mass stabbings" aren't exactly rare, and knife crimes are pretty common.

Original message details are unavailable.

In the year ending March 2020, there were around 46,000 (selected) offences involving a knife or sharp instrument in England and Wales.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn04304/


Let's not pretend that weapon crimes are not an issue, it's just a different weapon being used.



If the logic is "UK cops don't have guns because citizens don't have guns", then shouldn't UK cops have knives instead? :P


At least the British police are taking dangerous spoons and tools off the streets before they fall into the wrong hands:

https://twitter.com/MPSRegentsPark/status/974645778558980096


https://twitter.com/MPSRegentsPark/status/1128259712984735744



Who knows what could happen if those fell into the wrong hands? Someone might accidentally build a shelf or eat a bowl of soup.
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02-Mar-2021 05:28:45

FiFi LaFeles

FiFi LaFeles

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Yes, there is knife crime in the UK. Of course. Same as everywhere else.

However, ordinary citizens tend not to carry knives in the supermarket or on the bus or in their car or in their handbag in the same way that seems to happen in other countries with guns - where having a gun is both legal and seen as prudent. Carrying a knife in the UK is illegal.

Hence, we tend not to have instances of people stabbing each other over trivial disagreements in random locations, unlike shootings in general settings that I see reported from countries which have gun legality.

Having said that, the knife crime that we do have in the UK appears to be very much confined to "gang" related squabbles over turf, ethnicity, "disrespect" issues and similar shite and is mainly carried out by young male persons.

Our serious criminal element do, indeed, have (illegal) guns but these are used to slaughter rivals rarely and usually very discretely.

I made no pretence: "Let's not pretend that weapon crimes are not an issue, it's just a different weapon being used".

...... I merely stated that "I wouldn't like to live in a society where people were shooting each other, and being shot at in retaliation, for such things as an argument in a grocery store or their voting preference." and I maintain that stance.

I also run virtually no risk of being stabbed in the UK due to a disagreement in a grocery store or my voting preference (being expressed by a poster in my window etc).

Certainly, our Police Forces make some questionable decisions when determining the nature of an 'offensive weapon', however I would rather they appear faintly ridiculous than be doing nothing.
Le Chat Guerrier

Bwian's Towel & Grief Shop

02-Mar-2021 09:09:42

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