RuneScape Forum Archive | Alt1 should be banned! Y/N?

Feb

2022

Bradinat0r

Posts: 5 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Lol, yea, skip tickets. Well, I only used those on knots that were taking me more time than I wanted. Now as for some of the other skippers that's gonna get very costly fast for you. Anyways, it's like whatever at this point.....I was angered by how many times people were throwing this tool in my face. I'm not going to continue to bother with this topic. It's not like this is the first ever thread on it. This thread will come to a close too and all will remain as it was.

05-Sep-2021 10:56:03

Nov

2020

SlR

Posts: 4,378 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Daddy Roshi said :

everyones problem is it solves puzzles for u then just ignore that fact that u can just buy a skip ticket or use the excuse "well jagex added them to the game so thats fine" so if they do add alt1 to the actual game then its fine? or are u still gonna complain that its "cheating"?
I feel like we are already in the 'ignore it' stage, and for me that's not a longterm solution.
I don't think its fair to players paying 1.5m for skip tickets whilst others can cheat around it. Bob says:

A bank PIN will keep your items secure.

Always check the second trade screen.

Never trade in the Wilderness!

Keep your computer keylogger-free and virus scanned.

Never give your password out to anyone.

05-Sep-2021 11:32:48

Apr

2020

Reaper of

Posts: 25 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I totally agree, you're not allowed to use bots for a reason, and in my point of view, I reckon this software as a bot. It translates the data in the RuneScape client to give you an advantage. And to be totally honest, I tried that software once, and will never again use it. It feelt like the software slowed my pc down, and once the clue scroll was finished I wasn't proud at all, completing a clue scroll.

Ban ALT1! - No call, no message. One was in ego and the other one was in hope.

05-Sep-2021 14:09:26

Indy Cision

Posts: 1,780 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

SlR said :

Source 1:

https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/c=kpvWN8yzBzo/a-message-about-unofficial-clients?oldschool=1

Source 2:

https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/another-message-about-unofficial-clients?oldschool=1

I am going off the assumption these are global principles and apply to both OSRS & RS3.

REDDIT (6 years ago) - It appears OK to use
But the question is - Should it be?

To be continued

Just thought I would point out, your sources are about OSRS *game clients*, i.e. software that can interrogate the actual game and not only what is visible on your screen. That "telling you where to stand" is because it can already see which item has been flagged as where the fireball which is just about to start animating is going to hit, or which floor tile has been given the "safe to stand here" flags (such as for example the Temple Trekking swamp where you have to poke the mud with sticks to see if it is firm or soft). It can check what attack types are being used regardless of whether the animation has started, or if its visibly identical to a different attack type.

Alt-1 cannot do this, just like your own eyeballs cannot do this.

With regards to the puzzle solver part, if Jagex added an accessibility tickbox that would replace the picture with easily readable numbers 1 to 24 (and possibly allow you to resize the puzzle to make it larger?) I wouldn't use the puzzle solver, I can do those pretty fast without Alt1 if I know where the tiles are meant to go in the end

You mention Youtube and the Wiki, but if you ignore the "ease of access" of Alt1, are you going to also ban the RuneApps helpers where you can copy/paste the same screenshot to be given the solution? Your threads just seem to focus on Alt1 when there are other utilities that let you do the same thing...

05-Sep-2021 14:51:19

Nov

2020

SlR

Posts: 4,378 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Whether Alt1 works inside, hovers above, underneath, or hides around the corner, it does a similar thing - Indicates what your next move should be using markers that feed off real-time client information. I couldn't find any RS3 sources, if you see any please post them here.

I understand it doesn't take information from the game before it appears on screen, but it does act as your eyeballs (and brain) when calculating next move in real time. I just feel the puzzles, and any randomised content for that matter, are meant to be done by the player and certainly not to be automated in real-time.

Even youtubers say they can't help you on their quest guides if there is a random element, they can only show you techniques to solve it yourself. Wiki is the same. Alt1 is a bot that does not auto-click, simple as that. The player merely becomes the mechanical operator for the bot/alt1. Real-time overlay indicators have implications for PVM/PVP.

I had to look into what you meant about the copy/paste thing, I didn't know you could send them a print-screen of your scrambled puzzle. Although I'd say thats far better than using a bot that works in real-time. I'd like to see somebody printscreen and upload a picture of Raksha mid-fight to find out where to click next. You see my point? Bob says:

A bank PIN will keep your items secure.

Always check the second trade screen.

Never trade in the Wilderness!

Keep your computer keylogger-free and virus scanned.

Never give your password out to anyone.

05-Sep-2021 16:27:21 - Last edited on 05-Sep-2021 16:32:37 by SlR

May

2007

J R Kerr

Posts: 7,222 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I just deleted ten paragraphs of hilarious rant.

Keeping It Simple Stupid: My vote

A) disable alt1's ability to work?
B) tweak fish flingers so that more hints are given when fewer players available
C) dont punish players for havin used it before cause its benefits have in many ways been indirect to non users

cause I am forced to admit that irons with alt1 playing fish flingers and calling right stuff made that part of trimming a lot easier for me, and thus I kinda benefited from alt1 without ever ever ever using ANY 3rd party software, and thats... a real cry for help. jagex could tweak that.

I hate irons and I want a shirt that reads this:

LMGTFY BTW

Now all this said... my vote aint simple. I dont know. They can do x, y, and z to make a thing happen... but its image analysis like facial recognition, right? how can they stop people from having some shit like alt1 on their phone? get it? like... it could be on their phone, reading image of screen, and givin all the answers, and thats a total diff m.a.c. so jflex would never never know. so some of the change in policy... it'd be unenforceable in a lot of ways.

I hate alt1, but I guess... I have to be "neutral" officially, but sincerest best luck to those of y'all arguin the finer points of it.

I have quit rsof because moderator found comments about darklight bonus damage on demons "off topic" for wildy flash mobs full of demons

05-Sep-2021 18:09:13

Indy Cision

Posts: 1,780 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

SlR said :
... Indicates what your next move should be using markers that feed off real-time client information. I couldn't find any RS3 sources, if you see any please post them here.

...I'd like to see somebody printscreen and upload a picture of Raksha mid-fight to find out where to click next. You see my point?...

Snipped some out.
There aren't any RS3 sources because you cannot just "wrap" the NXT software inside another client - that whole no changing or injecting into their code thing - but the old Java based client was not Jagex proprietary software and you could load the Java applet into their official client, your own client where you can then study all the variables, whatever.

Those OSRS rules existed purely to put a limit on what you were allowed to dig out of the java client so you could only ever "see" the same things as a real person.

I haven't fought Raksha yet, but it from looking it up I cannot see Alt-1 actually doing what you suggest. And again, this is *not* the same as the OSRS clients which could already look at the Java values to say exactly what attack is coming, where it is going to hit, it doesn't recognise changes in animations etc. it looks for easy to detect/recognise images in a static screenshot. I can see what you're trying to say here, but that is a discussion about way more than Alt-1 territory and is a bit of a combination of the slippery slope and red herring fallacies. Kind of a "If we don't ban Alt-1 now, then before you know it an AI will be doing everything apart from clicking for you"

05-Sep-2021 18:31:27

PiraBob

Posts: 37,493 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Support banning it. Also keeps the rules simple. Not some weird "perhaps it's allowed perhaps not" stance that they have now, just simple "third party runescape software is no-go". Simple line and clear. Bob

05-Sep-2021 19:48:34

Nov

2020

SlR

Posts: 4,378 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

SlR said :
Indy Cision said :
I can see what you're trying to say here, but that is a discussion about way more than Alt-1 territory and is a bit of a combination of the slippery slope and red herring fallacies. Kind of a "If we don't ban Alt-1 now, then before you know it an AI will be doing everything apart from clicking for you"
Yep, it's both - what it currently does, and what it can do (and get away with) since the same technology would be used. It'd just have to recognise boss animations and tell you what to do in real time to defeat it.

Whether or not it works inside or on-top of the client, it achieves a very similar result. It gives players an unfair advantage over regular players that dont use it. It affects the economy by both bypassing in-game paid mechanics and artificially increases clue rewards entering the game. People encouraged to use it (via youtube / word-of-mouth) is another issue; that poses a risk to account security. Its just overall not a good thing for RS (in my opinion). Why can't they just play the game like it was intended?

Original message details are unavailable.
its image analysis like facial recognition, right? how can they stop people from having some s*** like alt1 on their phone? get it? like.. it could be on their phone, reading image of screen, and givin all the answers, and thats a total diff m.a.c. so jflex would never never know. so some of the change in policy.. it'd be unenforceable in a lot of ways.
True, they could, and it'd be much more cumbersome (which would be better than nothing). It'd act more like a traditional guide. It'd reduce the speed people solve them. They'd also not have to download third-party software which is a plus.

The only way I see 'real-time indicators' being used (for PVM/PVP etc.) is if the response time is low enough - I don't think using a phone in this scenario would work. Lesser of two evils?

I'll put you in neutral J R Kerr Bob says:

A bank PIN will keep your items secure.

Always check the second trade screen.

Never trade in the Wilderness!

Keep your computer keylogger-free and virus scanned.

Never give your password out to anyone.

05-Sep-2021 21:26:15 - Last edited on 06-Sep-2021 08:30:14 by SlR

May

2007

J R Kerr

Posts: 7,222 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

yeah sorry to be neutral on that, but Im glad it counts for what it means to you. I want them to rarify player's needs for 3rd party anything, but I don't think this kind of image reader is actually policeable. Kinda like a drug war... you can fight it on supply side, or demand side, but not both, or else neither and make sure its decriminalized, people have healthcare, and trust people to be smart enough to see that weed gave bob marley cancer, and to not get pied pipered away into mistaking it for some kinda cure. its weird how many people have that wrong. anyways... good luck yall.

I have quit rsof because moderator found comments about darklight bonus damage on demons "off topic" for wildy flash mobs full of demons

05-Sep-2021 23:47:51

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Alt1 should be banned! Y/N?