RuneScape Forum Archive | Alt1 should be banned! Y/N?

Nov

2020

SlR

Posts: 4,378 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Draco Burnz said :
SlR said :

Unless the Google Authenticator can give someone a 'competitive advantage' why are we talking about it? Are we really comparing Google, a giant, with some random bloke/gal that developed a script for Runescape? We were closer with the Alt1 VS RS-Wiki comparison.

This isnt about giving unfair advantages but more so google is a 3rd party company.

So please tell me why ones ok but the other isnt?

Besides personal reasons. Just because one protects you acc means nothing. Its the acc holders responsibility to make sure their acc is safe thus for all anyone knows downloading the app could give a virus on their phone.

I still don't understand why you're going down this road, conversationally. Is it a strawman argument? or am I missing something? (it has happened before).

I don't see anyone suggesting that Alt1 be banned simply because it is 3rd party software. Why would they? Do you consider all 3rd parties equal? or that they should be treated equally? A virus, by definition is 3rd party software, is it not? ... Google Authenticator is used because Google are a trusted company; the chance of something going wrong on that front is slim.

How about we discuss Alt1 and 3rd party software that give players a competitive advantage , not just any old 3rd party software. But yeah, like you said, it's down to the individual / player to ensure his/her own account safety. PS: I hope you all had a nice Christmas! Bob says:

A bank PIN will keep your items secure.

Always check the second trade screen.

Never trade in the Wilderness!

Keep your computer keylogger-free and virus scanned.

Never give your password out to anyone.

29-Dec-2021 13:49:28 - Last edited on 29-Dec-2021 16:14:49 by SlR

Dec

2011

Draco Burnz

Posts: 79,296 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

SlR said :
Do you consider all 3rd parties equal? or that they should be treated equally?

Yes, yes i do.

IMO, all programs should have a chance to exist unless proven they are a hindrance.

Alt1 hasnt been proven to be one and this is all just how ppl personally feel about it.

So since its just as helpful as the wiki, it deserves to stay.

Draco Burnz

Anime Fanatic

Defender of the logical

29-Dec-2021 21:55:18 - Last edited on 29-Dec-2021 21:55:44 by Draco Burnz

Mar

2006

Immortalized

Posts: 34,061 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

SlR said :
For those unaware: Alt1 is third-party software that modifies your Runescape client.
this is a lie, 100% false. all it does is draw things on screen above the game client. this is no different than other things like discord voice integration with games. there's nothing inherently wrong with alt1 and i will be developing extensions for it to make the game easier for me.

there is also very little jagex can do to detect if even if hypothetically they tried to ban it. it's an entirely different application that does nothing to the original game, the only way they could tell is if they create an anticheat that monitors programs you are running. i would be able to still use a program like alt1 toolkit if i played runescape in a virtual machine and ran the toolkit from the host machine. it is futile to even consider this option and a misunderstanding if you think that it modifies your client. Buy Zemomarks / Chromatic Partyhats safely here

29-Dec-2021 22:14:32

May

2015

Nosman

Posts: 170 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

NO
if alt1 is cheating then runelite is a botting client.

jmods already stated that alt1 is fine since it is only an overlay.
runelite if more invasive than alt1 and there fine with that. heck runelite even has a quest helper that highlights everything you need to do down to npcs, to were to stand..

can this thread be locked as all it is doing is causing a flame war.

30-Dec-2021 03:06:08 - Last edited on 30-Dec-2021 03:08:15 by Nosman

Nov

2020

SlR

Posts: 4,378 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Alt1 modifies your Runescape client -"this is a lie, 100% false"- Why would it add 'alt1 toolkit' to your Runescape client (top-right) if it didn't alter it? It also forces you to re-enter your username and password after installing, this rings alarm bells to me. That said, if it doesn't alter it then it doesn't, fair enough. It wasn't a major point I was trying to make and I'd happily remove that part if it's indeed false.

"all it does is draw things on screen above the game client". Yes, after reading your unique / dynamic / randomised content in game (or ON game). Randomised content is not pre-determined (like quests); Alt1 performs things Wiki or Youtube cannot, thus ought not be compared.

"there is also very little jagex can do to detect if even if hypothetically they tried to ban it"; Is that not more reason to be concerned though? that there are programs like Alt1 out there that are undetectable? if we are lax in approach, surely more will be developed. I think this is an important topic or conversation to have before things get worse. Eg: PVP & PVM real-time clickable indicators.

"NO. if alt1 is cheating then runelite is a botting client"; I think they both degrade the game. Perhaps runelite moreso than Alt1, but two wrongs don't make a right.

"runelite even has a quest helper that highlights everything you need to do down to npcs, to were to stand" - I don't think people can rinse-repeat quests in order to make millions the way they can with clues +Alt1. There are parts of this game that are designed to be done by the player, and if they cannot there are ways in-game to bypass them (2m skipping tickets). Is it fair that ordinary players pay 2m when Alt1 effectively does the same thing for free.

"can this thread be locked as all it is doing is causing a flame war" - Please don't project that. I'm sure anyone instigating a flame war will be taken care of by Mods if they deem it necessary. We're having a thoughtful debate on this. It's a complex on Bob says:

A bank PIN will keep your items secure.

Always check the second trade screen.

Never trade in the Wilderness!

Keep your computer keylogger-free and virus scanned.

Never give your password out to anyone.

30-Dec-2021 11:40:11 - Last edited on 31-Dec-2021 09:40:39 by SlR

Dec

2011

Draco Burnz

Posts: 79,296 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

SlR said :
There are parts of this game that are designed to be done by the player, and if they cannot there are ways in-game to bypass them

Ok and whoever made you the one who decides what ppl can/cant do to figure out things?

IMO, that power should be left with jagex as they're the owners of the game not you.

So if they want to ignore alt1 and "allow" ppl to use it, then all you can do is accept it.

SlR said :
. Is it fair that ordinary players pay 2m when Alt1 effectively does the same thing for free.

Yes as those ppl are choosing to pay said money when they can look something like this up so thats 100% on them.

Ppl choosing to do something a certain way should never be a reason to ban something, otherwise i say being a pure should be banned as ill never play as a pure.

Draco Burnz

Anime Fanatic

Defender of the logical

30-Dec-2021 11:47:40 - Last edited on 30-Dec-2021 11:51:49 by Draco Burnz

Jan

2015

Tenebri

Posts: 39,167 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

SlR said :
We're having a thoughtful debate on this. It's a complex one!

i wouldnt call it complex :L

jagex have allowed alt1 and runelite. if runelite is fine, alt1 is definitely fine compared to what runelite does.

runelite isnt an overlay its a client on its own.
alt1 is literally an overlay. thats it.

so to say this is complex is wrong. its clear what the differences are and how vanilla alt1 is.

and comparing the 2 is important in this. especially when you say you want one removed. especially the vanilla version thats just an overlay that is really only used for clues thats it.
200m all RS3 on 7/3/19

1.2Billion overall Slayer xp / Ultimate slayer title

OSRS 2277/2277 Untrim slayer cape

Hail Satan, He loves for who you are.

30-Dec-2021 12:25:21 - Last edited on 30-Dec-2021 12:34:03 by Tenebri

Nov

2020

SlR

Posts: 4,378 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Draco, come on man, you know that's not what I'm trying to do here, please don't be rude. I'm not trying to tell people what they can or cannot do. I'm just a player concerned for the future of a game that I enjoy playing. We're all entitled to our views.

Jagex value player feedback of all sorts; positive, negative, even the 'you suck' comments, probably. I don't expect this issue to be resolved any time soon (if at all) as it would be a mammoth task, but I feel there needs to be an outlet for players to voice their opinions on it (both for and against).

If Jagex choose to partner up with the guy/gal that made Alt1, so be it, I'd accept it. This would imply that they are fully compliant with Jagex, their rules, and have a seal of approval. Plus: If everyone had access to Alt1 from the RS Homepage then it wouldn't be considered an unfair advantage as everyone would know about it.

That said, if everyone used Alt1, what would happen to the game? It would become easier for the sake of people wanting to to be easier. Is that what you want for a game you have invested many hours into? Just food for thought.

"those ppl are choosing to pay said money when they can look something like this up so thats 100% on them." - You can't expect people to look up work-arounds for everything they don't like on Runescape. Especially if that work-around is delivered via 3 party software. If they need to learn HOW to do something then sure, there is the Wiki for that, but to go looking for programs to download for Runescape? that doesn't sound like best idea to me.

"Ppl choosing to do something a certain way should never be a reason to ban something, otherwise i say being a pure should be banned as ill never play as a pure." - I never implied this. People choosing to do something a certain way is not a reason I (or anyone else) has given to suggest Alt1 be banned.

Let's focus on the bigger picture and not the minor details or technicalities, that's what has allowed Alt1 to thrive. Bob says:

A bank PIN will keep your items secure.

Always check the second trade screen.

Never trade in the Wilderness!

Keep your computer keylogger-free and virus scanned.

Never give your password out to anyone.

30-Dec-2021 13:06:40

Nov

2020

SlR

Posts: 4,378 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Tenebri said :
SlR said :
We're having a thoughtful debate on this. It's a complex one!

i wouldnt call it complex :L

Well, that's because you are a clever clogs!

Tenebri said :
SlR said :
We're having a thoughtful debate on this. It's a complex one!

jagex have allowed alt1 and runelite. if runelite is fine, alt1 is definitely fine compared to what runelite does.

runelite isnt an overlay its a client on its own.
alt1 is literally an overlay. thats it.

so to say this is complex is wrong. its clear what the differences are and how vanilla alt1 is.

and comparing the 2 is important in this. especially when you say you want one removed. especially the vanilla version that's just an overlay that is really only used for clues thats it.

Whether it's a complex one or not is subjective. I'm led to believe it's not clear / black and white because not everyone holds the same opinions about it. And if it were that simple I think we'd have heard a bit more on their 'official stance' about using it. ~~Complex~~ It's a grey area. Moving on from semantics...

Runescape (Vanilla) vs Runescape+Alt1... I would not call using Alt1 'vanilla' play, as it's an altered version of the game (designed to make it easier). There are convenience tools within Alt1 that I have no issues with, ones that aren't tied so closely to amassing wealth. The program is multifaceted, you can like some things and dislike others, it doesn't have to be all-or-nothing.

I feel that the clue solver (and the technology it uses) is in breach of the rules (or if it isn't currently then I think it should be). Next-move clickable on-screen indicators shouldn't really be allowed...

Example of Alt1 clue solver:

The 'benign' features of Alt1 do not give 'eroding' features of Alt1 a free pass (in my eyes). Bob says:

A bank PIN will keep your items secure.

Always check the second trade screen.

Never trade in the Wilderness!

Keep your computer keylogger-free and virus scanned.

Never give your password out to anyone.

30-Dec-2021 13:29:50 - Last edited on 30-Dec-2021 16:52:37 by SlR

Jan

2015

Tenebri

Posts: 39,167 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

^ yes you dont need to give an example of alt1 i have completed over 4k clues. i know what it does.
and it helps with clues sure. but it doesnt breach any rules or should be changed to be against it. it would then be thin line between allowed quest help and this....

it would also mean runelite has to go asap. in its entirety. and that would be the end of osrs.

so to want alt1 be bannable. runelite has to be as well.... and yeah that wont be good business.

especially as alt1 is just a guide.

SlR said :

Well, that's because you are a clever clogs!

oh why thannk you very much
200m all RS3 on 7/3/19

1.2Billion overall Slayer xp / Ultimate slayer title

OSRS 2277/2277 Untrim slayer cape

Hail Satan, He loves for who you are.

30-Dec-2021 18:27:38 - Last edited on 30-Dec-2021 18:31:01 by Tenebri

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Alt1 should be banned! Y/N?