RuneScape Forum Archive | Fix Price check threads.

Jun

2005

Miffdor

Posts: 6,122 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I agree with pretty much everything Trip says on this thread.

I think that raising the threshold for participation in price checking will drive away the part-timers like me, and the rest will go to discord. Like Trip, I am not comfortable with using any 3rd party platform for Runescape.

I also don’t think we can expect mods (of any sort) to take on the burden of running price checking.

I’d rather see something completely new. Like an auction house for rares which uses something like platinum tokens. But that’s probably a discussion for another day/thread.

11-Jan-2021 17:15:06

May

2023

Surprised

Posts: 5,322 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Miffdor said :
I agree with pretty much everything Trip says on this thread.

I think that raising the threshold for participation in price checking will drive away the part-timers like me, and the rest will go to discord. Like Trip, I am not comfortable with using any 3rd party platform for Runescape.

I also don’t think we can expect mods (of any sort) to take on the burden of running price checking.

I’d rather see something completely new. Like an auction house for rares which uses something like platinum tokens. But that’s probably a discussion for another day/thread.

The thing i don't understand is, how is this raising the threshold? We are asking for bare minimum that should have been a norm in first place..

And let's say even if I followed your logic that this would decrease participation -
Would you rather have shitty reports that don't reflect true prices at all or fewer but genuine ones?

How would this be a burden? You post a thread once in months... and people respond to it.
“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”

12-Jan-2021 05:28:42

Jun

2005

Miffdor

Posts: 6,122 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I don’t think it would be difficult for active merchants like yourself, but most other people probably wouldn’t keep up with the rules. However, I guess most rare trades usually involve an active merchant on at least one side of the deal anyway.

If a mod posted the thread would they not essentially become liable for any misinformation posted therein? Therefore, if the threads were posted by the mods, they would feel obliged to put in an increased effort to keep on top of fake prices. Hence the increased burden.

I still feel the only way you’re likely to solve the issue is with a more substantial update from Jagex – e.g. being able to post up a completed trade with the click of a button in game.

If something like that was introduced, I’d feel there should be some allowance for anonymity. But then again, that would make it more open to manipulation…

12-Jan-2021 17:20:01

May

2023

Surprised

Posts: 5,322 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Miffdor said :
I don’t think it would be difficult for active merchants like yourself, but most other people probably wouldn’t keep up with the rules. However, I guess most rare trades usually involve an active merchant on at least one side of the deal anyway.

If a mod posted the thread would they not essentially become liable for any misinformation posted therein? Therefore, if the threads were posted by the mods, they would feel obliged to put in an increased effort to keep on top of fake prices. Hence the increased burden.

I still feel the only way you’re likely to solve the issue is with a more substantial update from Jagex – e.g. being able to post up a completed trade with the click of a button in game.

If something like that was introduced, I’d feel there should be some allowance for anonymity. But then again, that would make it more open to manipulation…

Nobody is saying we don't want a more permanent solution, but in the meantime, why not do things better?

in my head, I read what you're essentially saying as-
If there's a power cut, let's keep cursing the darkness and stay in dark and cold instead of lighting a fire, if that makes sense.

Surprised
“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”

13-Jan-2021 02:41:31

Dec

2022

Mith Ore

Posts: 2,617 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

If you want to fix PC threads and scamming off of them, no ranges should be allowed. Only allow pcs of trades and then compilations of those pced trades. No trades from a friend of a friend of a friend you heard of. Just your own trades you can personally vouch for should be posted. If your friend of a friend is unwilling to post it, it shouldn't be included based on your word. I can say I saw a 100b yellow sale but it doesn't make it true. Compilations of trades that are posted on the thread are what these "ranges" should contain, a true compilation like last 5 posted trades per color is what it should be. Instead you rely on honesty from merchers which is a silly thing to do based on logic.

Another major problem is deleting every single post disputing trades or prices because that only lends credibility to fake traders when an Fmod backs them up in that way and harms real players. I understand it's a hard topic when Fmods aren't actually involved in the market and thus do not understand when somebody is very obviously posting a fake trade but when any dissenting opinion is removed it creates a terrible standard where nobody is willing to deny fake prices because they know at best they will get their message removed and at worst they might get a forum mute for calling somebody out for posting fake prices.

13-Jan-2021 03:51:11

May

2023

Surprised

Posts: 5,322 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Mith Ore said :
If you want to fix PC threads and scamming off of them, no ranges should be allowed. Only allow pcs of trades and then compilations of those pced trades. No trades from a friend of a friend of a friend you heard of. Just your own trades you can personally vouch for should be posted. If your friend of a friend is unwilling to post it, it shouldn't be included based on your word. I can say I saw a 100b yellow sale but it doesn't make it true. Compilations of trades that are posted on the thread are what these "ranges" should contain, a true compilation like last 5 posted trades per color is what it should be. Instead you rely on honesty from merchers which is a silly thing to do based on logic.

Another major problem is deleting every single post disputing trades or prices because that only lends credibility to fake traders when an Fmod backs them up in that way and harms real players. I understand it's a hard topic when Fmods aren't actually involved in the market and thus do not understand when somebody is very obviously posting a fake trade but when any dissenting opinion is removed it creates a terrible standard where nobody is willing to deny fake prices because they know at best they will get their message removed and at worst they might get a forum mute for calling somebody out for posting fake prices.

Agreed on all fronts.
“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”

13-Jan-2021 05:53:13

Mar

2013

LovveL

Posts: 5,894 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Mith Ore said :

Another major problem is deleting every single post disputing trades or prices because that only lends credibility to fake traders when an Fmod backs them up in that way and harms real players. I understand it's a hard topic when Fmods aren't actually involved in the market and thus do not understand when somebody is very obviously posting a fake trade but when any dissenting opinion is removed it creates a terrible standard where nobody is willing to deny fake prices because they know at best they will get their message removed and at worst they might get a forum mute for calling somebody out for posting fake prices.

I salute you and agree! It's obvious from an outside perspective that these fake pricers are working by the rules and therefore the people calling them out have their posts removed and for that the faker will seem more legit. Gotta say though some (at least one) of the F-mods here are very much involved in the market.

Personally I do not like compilations of trades UNLESS it's a compilation of EVERY traded item that specific thread tracks.

Also hugely agree on the fact that EVERY price-check posted should forever be your own and ONLY your own. In my opinion even posting your alt account's purchases should be against the rules, but I know that would be close to impossible to check up on. Rank #56 Overall. 8000/1****? Hard caskets stacked. 7000/8****? Elite caskets stacked.
31/37 boss logs completed - Ultimate Slayer achieved
Would you trust a Price-checking service that has bots running in W2 advertising themselves constantly? I wouldn't!

13-Jan-2021 13:55:16

Sep

2016

S 1 M O N

Posts: 1,491 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

1) Every single range/PC/update is posted with a disclaimer saying do your own research and don't trust these prices - so what is the point of these?

2) It was publicly stated last year by a J-Mod that most of the prices on the forums are just straight up manipulations (i cannot remember the source but it was widely publicized at the time)

3) The only active F-Mod that I can see who 'moderates' the threads is a disc. item holder himself. Conflicts of interest?

It shouldn't be a matter of 'fixing' them. It should be a matter of simply REMOVING THEM. I would bet good money if these threads didn't exist, every single rare would come crashing down with a bang as they'd have nowhere to state their inflated trades.

13-Jan-2021 16:01:29 - Last edited on 13-Jan-2021 16:01:42 by S 1 M O N

Oct

2017

Raphtalia6

Posts: 1,134 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

i agree highly on the part where ranges form a big part of the problem at hand.

most pcers try their best to input the right ranges shout out to surprise for doing alot of work for little gain.

but try a different angle,

Lets assume the ranges arent the problem because they are accurate but individuals using these ranges to boost the prices making pcer increasing their ranges ultimately resulting in overpriced items dual to individuals forcing a push in the ranges.

simply put.

Raphtalia6 makes the following range:

Wooden stick 5,5-7,5b

player with bad intentions: sold Wooden stick for 7,8b to player2.

Raphtalia6 makes the following range:

Wooden stick 6,2-8,2b

^ raphtalia6 just makes a new pc based on the trade but player 1 traded with player 2 for way tomuch (might be an alt or a friend or whatever conspiracy or a legit trade with no intent could be assumed too).

Baseline is that everyone gets fooled because this 1 trade changed the picture entirely in the pc.

above fiction is assuming the pcer is not working together with player 1.

assuming the pcer is working with player 1 the damage might be unpredictable.

above text is all assumptions to open a different way of approaching the problem.

Small note: this is just an example of a pc and trade that never happend so please dont take this in the wrong way. thnx! and im open for feedback or additional info. trusting certain pc lists or prices of items or websites that dont belong to jagex will get you into trouble notice: external websites and trades are your responsibility, dont get fooled!.

13-Jan-2021 17:03:56

May

2023

Surprised

Posts: 5,322 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

S 1 M O N said :
1) Every single range/PC/update is posted with a disclaimer saying do your own research and don't trust these prices - so what is the point of these?

2) It was publicly stated last year by a J-Mod that most of the prices on the forums are just straight up manipulations (i cannot remember the source but it was widely publicized at the time)

3) The only active F-Mod that I can see who 'moderates' the threads is a disc. item holder himself. Conflicts of interest?

It shouldn't be a matter of 'fixing' them. It should be a matter of simply REMOVING THEM. I would bet good money if these threads didn't exist, every single rare would come crashing down with a bang as they'd have nowhere to state their inflated trades.

I really don't understand some points, can you help me out? I feel you're coming at this with good intention but community benefits from PCs too if done correctly. I would support removal too if I am honest, if fixing wasn't an option. I think they do way more harm than good.

1) The issue is, It does not matter if the threads have warning on it, people take it at face value, and while it may be easy to blame the people, it's better to hate the disease, rather than diseased.

2) Personally, I don't care if Jagex thinks that, they are humans too, and that shouldn't mean you give up on asking for things to be fair and better.
I also don't believe that Jagex does not care about manipulation, if it is apparent to them.
I think in most cases they lack the manpower and investigation resource time to look at some of these things.

3) The suggestions made here make manipulation harder. I have not seen any Fmod being partisan or peddling Scam artist Friends chats in their signatures. They are also players like you and me, they aren't paid for moderation..why can't they trade/merch?

Surprised.
“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”

14-Jan-2021 04:00:06

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Fix Price check threads.