RuneScape Forum Archive | Will RS ever be Scaled Up?

Exhumed2003

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Mod Matthe said :
Jon Stryder said :
Evilpricetag said :
You know enlarging the map, wouldn't make large open wastelands between all the now know points, it would add allot of content as well...
Unfortunately, I believe it is thinking like this that is one of the problems holding this update back. The thinking that this update needs to introduce more content on release.

Sure in the long term , the new space between cities can be developed and have content added to it and improve the long-term health of the game. But each individual piece of content, each mini-game or quest or Boss that is put in the newly created space would need it's own time to be developed. And this is on top of the huge amount of time it would already take to create that space in the first place.

And it is this lack of short term benefit, the lack of new content on release that is likely to cause a backlash from the community. How many times have you seen posts on the forums following an area graphical rework with comments like 'Is that it!?!' or 'No update week!!!' . Now imagine that on a large scale after 3 years worth of development and no updates!

Unfortunately the community can be very short sighted about updates, judging them only in terms of how it immediately benefits their xp/gp rates instead of playing the long game.

Expanding the map, without adding content (which you are correct would an enormous amount more work) is still a huge task as we have previously discussed. The implications on current content would be so massive as to make it unfeasible as a game update, let alone the sheer amount of work that would be required just to add space.

How are other mmorpg's able to release such "massive updates"? Like every few months to a year? I think the term is "expansion pack"? Why can't RuneScape have an expansion pack?

As old school as a player can be.

03-Feb-2017 21:22:36

Jon Stryder

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Exhumed2003 said :
How are other mmorpg's able to release such "massive updates"? Like every few months to a year? I think the term is "expansion pack"? Why can't RuneScape have an expansion pack?
Jagex is moving to a more 'Expansion' based update model, with large updates every 3 months rather then the weekly updates we have now. The first of these is Menaphos which is due for release in June. This is set to include the city, at least one quest, various activities, a new slayer dungeon and master, and the slayer skill being extended to level 120. This would seem on a scale with several large updates all rolled into one.

So how can Jagex do this but not expand the rest of the map, even without all that extra content?

Two reasons I can see:
Firstly, the city of Menaphos is just one small area when compared to the rest of Gielinor. It is on the coast and is not surrounded on all sides by content so can be expanded to fit whatever content the developers choose to throw at it.

Secondly, this is a new area so doesn't have to deal with legacy code. The rest of the map consists of update, built on update, built on update. This means the underlying code has been written, rewritten and modified many times leaving it a confusing mess of spaghetti to try to unpick. This can produce weird unexpected bugs that are hard to track down, so it is often much easier to just ignore the problem and create something new somewhere else.

Unfortunately, all the time Jagex chooses the easy option and develops content somewhere new, that spaghetti code is never going to fix itself. So the feasibility of the whole scale world enlargement we want will never improve to a point where it becomes actually achievable. –= MEGA Construction Rework =–

Freeform Buildings, Surface World Plots, Community Involvement, Environments, Skills and much, much more...!

04-Feb-2017 12:41:31

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2022

Rifleavenger

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Good on the Jmods for peeking in here often, even if it's to say the task is unfeasible.

I will reiterate my support for if it ever does become feasible. When I started playing in 2005 I got to Draynor Village and felt utterly lost, even though Lumbridge was actually quite close. Now I can literally see beyond Draynor from Lumbridge Castle with maximum draw distance.

23-Feb-2017 06:07:51

Nov

2003

2 2 5

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Mod Matthe said :

Expanding the map, without adding content (which you are correct would an enormous amount more work) is still a huge task as we have previously discussed. The implications on current content would be so massive as to make it unfeasible as a game update, let alone the sheer amount of work that would be required just to add space.

Even if the map was divided into chunks? Fally stays the same size, but the distance between fally and another town, say drynor increases and filled in with forests, etc.

What content would expanding the world map break?

I don't doubt it would be a large project and I am not sure its worth it..... but the map is rather small and crammed at the same time.... Helpful Links: Forum Help | Account Help | BBcodes

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23-Feb-2017 16:28:05

Gogoman

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Although I would like to see a scale up some time soon, I think Jagex is taking good steps already: Removing crap content (referring to the Lummy crater bullsh and ape thing) is a very effective start to make the world bigger. Freshing up areas by taking dead content out of the game

23-Feb-2017 18:28:59

Nov

2003

2 2 5

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Gogoman said :
Although I would like to see a scale up some time soon, I think Jagex is taking good steps already: Removing crap content (referring to the Lummy crater bullsh and ape thing) is a very effective start to make the world bigger. Freshing up areas by taking dead content out of the game

See content like the crater isn't bad and if RS was sized a bit more appropriately it would not appear like an eyesore. It literally would fit in better, the problem is because the [world] map is so small and this content so "big" it comes across as an eyesore. Helpful Links: Forum Help | Account Help | BBcodes

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23-Feb-2017 19:54:57

Mod Matthe

Jagex Moderator Forum Profile Posts by user

Exhumed2003 said :

How are other mmorpg's able to release such "massive updates"? Like every few months to a year? I think the term is "expansion pack"? Why can't RuneScape have an expansion pack?

Most other MMORPGs have a very different update and release model to RuneScape - we release content on an almost weekly basis making constant small, iterative changes to the game. This means it is built of many small sticks piled on top of one another - unpick some of the ones at the bottom and it can come collapsing down. Some other games are built around releases that are on a year, 2 year or more cycles and that format allows you to step back and make wholescale game change in a way that the constant content stream RuneScape has relied on makes more difficult.

We have expansions coming this summer - but for us this refers to a large scale project that enhances a chunk of the game. It is not the complete game overhaul that a map expansion would require - that would be a very different thing indeed. Mod MattHe | Former Community Manager, now in Events & occasional Lore Monkey

24-Feb-2017 08:55:12

Mod Matthe

Jagex Moderator Forum Profile Posts by user

2 2 5 said :
Mod Matthe said :

Expanding the map, without adding content (which you are correct would an enormous amount more work) is still a huge task as we have previously discussed. The implications on current content would be so massive as to make it unfeasible as a game update, let alone the sheer amount of work that would be required just to add space.

Even if the map was divided into chunks? Fally stays the same size, but the distance between fally and another town, say drynor increases and filled in with forests, etc.

What content would expanding the world map break?

I don't doubt it would be a large project and I am not sure its worth it..... but the map is rather small and crammed at the same time....

The map is already divided into chunks. But those chunks are relational to each other. Where an NPC is is a known thing by the game. Enlarge a section of the map (chunk as you put it) and you could cause every npc, every building, even every tree to be out of position. It is a massive amount of work. Mod MattHe | Former Community Manager, now in Events & occasional Lore Monkey

24-Feb-2017 09:08:30

Jon Stryder

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Mod Matthe said :
The map is already divided into chunks. But those chunks are relational to each other. Where an NPC is is a known thing by the game. Enlarge a section of the map (chunk as you put it) and you could cause every npc, every building, even every tree to be out of position. It is a massive amount of work.
By that I take it the coordinates of the NPCs, houses, trees etc. are all specified absolute to a world coordinate system, and are not specified relative to the specific map section they are situated in? Is there not a case then for a rolling program to systematically update these coordinates (as part of the on going area reworks and other regular updates) so they are relative to the specific map section, so these map sections can then be moved relative to each other without these things breaking?

The idea to me (at least as a first step), isn't to enlarge these games sections, but to separate them out and put additional (generic) game section in between them. Then each game section can be worked on at your leisure, with the additional surrounding game sections giving you space to expand into if necessary.

And yes, I know this would still be a massive amount of work and would take years, but is it more feasible than trying to do everything at once?

If not, what else could be done now to make a whole world expansion more feasible in the future ? –= MEGA Construction Rework =–

Freeform Buildings, Surface World Plots, Community Involvement, Environments, Skills and much, much more...!

24-Feb-2017 15:05:28 - Last edited on 24-Feb-2017 15:11:19 by Jon Stryder

Mod Matthe

Jagex Moderator Forum Profile Posts by user

Jon Stryder said :
Mod Matthe said :
The map is already divided into chunks. But those chunks are relational to each other. Where an NPC is is a known thing by the game. Enlarge a section of the map (chunk as you put it) and you could cause every npc, every building, even every tree to be out of position. It is a massive amount of work.
By that I take it the coordinates of the NPCs, houses, trees etc. are all specified absolute to a world coordinate system, and are not specified relative to the specific map section they are situated in? Is there not a case then for a rolling program to systematically update these coordinates (as part of the on going area reworks and other regular updates) so they are relative to the specific map section, so these map sections can then be moved relative to each other without these things breaking?

The idea to me (at least as a first step), isn't to enlarge these games sections, but to separate them out and put additional (generic) game section in between them. Then each game section can be worked on at your leisure, with the additional surrounding game sections giving you space to expand into if necessary.

And yes, I know this would still be a massive amount of work and would take years, but is it more feasible than trying to do everything at once?

If not, what else could be done now to make a whole world expansion more feasible in the future ?

I believe I did say it earlier on this thread, but we do look at how achievable this is every so often. It has been considered in detail within the last few months and it is not feasible. The amount of work, the overhead for an ongoing overhead for future capability to expand, and the resource we would have to deploy would be enormous - a project larger in scale and time required than NXT was/is. Mod MattHe | Former Community Manager, now in Events & occasional Lore Monkey

24-Feb-2017 16:00:09

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Will RS ever be Scaled Up?