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'Fresher' Start Worlds '2'

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H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'm just gonna put it here once, and one time only.

You can -literally- buy any item you missed out on, save for the -TROPHIES-, that you want from the League shop in OSRS. I would presume you can't get -TROPHY- items because these are items that are meant to signify a player's achievements within the game mode itself. If you didn't earn the trophy by playing the game mode, you don't get to complain about not having the trophy. Everything else? Throw some GP into the Grand Exchange or play the next League and earn some League Points. That will solve any problem you might have when it comes to being locked out of rewards.

Purple skin, is P U R P L E. S K I N. When does a skin color need to be thematic?

I'm going to ignore any further re-used whataboutisms you throw at me, Dilbert, from this point forward.
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Maxed
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26-Aug-2022 05:43:41

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
When you come to a game forum for discussion of the game, of course we base the discussion on their official worlds unless you have sources to prove them wrong. Again, you can disagree but so can everybody to ask you for the reason to disagree.

So Leagues put rewards behind subscription so can RS3 put rewards behind subscription in FSW. It is just extremely simple. Besides, it is Jagex's targeted players - new and long lapsed ones who are mostly the ones paying, and Jagex talked to both groups and they like it.

You are not talking about OSRS??????? Then please explain where is "real Leagues" come from when you wrote this before anybody else in this thread:

" but saving the rewards for something like a real League"

26-Aug-2022 05:43:44

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
If I am not mentioning "Leagues" in reference to Old School RuneScape specifically, and the context clues surrounding it imply that I am talking about RuneScape 3, then you can assume that "Leagues" means the same thing as "game modes."

In the above example you provide, I am referring to the possibility that Jagex may be holding on to the information behind the rewards being available for existing players outside of Fresh Start Worlds because they may offer the rewards behind a different game mode in the future, this is similar to Old School's Leagues in that you do -not- have to make a whole new account to play as an existing subscriber. If RS3 has an alternative game mode they don't want the lid taken off of yet, then withholding information makes sense, and players would receive it well. At least better than letting the Microtransaction team take point on when the main game gets access to these rewards.

Exactly. That doesn't mean -the entirety of Fresh Start Worlds- needs to be pay-to-play. Let the folks have fun on the free version of the game like they did years ago, and if they decide they want to try for a World First or get a skilling pet or whatever, it would be the same decision as back then when they wanted to open the Member's gate for the first time. I'm glad we agree there?

I've literally given my reasons for disagreeing multiple times. I'm not filling up entire threads with the two words "I disagree."

When I wax poetic about how the free experience is more meaningful to lapsed players than certain moderators seem to appreciate, I expect the folks reading the thread to see that as my argument. It's not meant to be discarded just so you can ask me a stupid question about OSRS because you have a weird penchant for deflecting.
Quest Cape Owner since 2021

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26-Aug-2022 05:53:40 - Last edited on 26-Aug-2022 05:55:29 by H 1 L D A

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Please read your own posts again. You have "real leagues", Leagues, OSRS, Old School. Kourend, Shattered Relics, Twisted Leagues etc etc etc in every one of them. You clearly were trying extremely hard to say RS3 FSW is not good and OSRS's league is everything.

This is obviously wrong as we can all see it easily RS3 has told us about their plan of having their rewards available elsewhere in the future but OSRS never.

Even if you try to deflect "real leagues" to other game modes you will still be failing because the other OSRS game modes like DMM require membership, and IM and GIM even require extra membership on new accounts. Even Raffles in OSRS requires membership. This is how OSRS monetize their players, even more so than RS3.

The whole Leagues, DMM, Boss Bash Raffle require membership, not any part of them. If you agree with me as you wrote then you agree the justification of both OSRS and RS3 on their monetization and design concerns.

26-Aug-2022 06:12:41 - Last edited on 26-Aug-2022 06:13:39 by Dilbert2001

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
No. I'm not. I'm trying to make sure Jagex knows how I - as a player - feel Fresh Start Worlds best appeals to their, Jagex's, stated target audience, which is lapsed players, and I'm trying to provide constructive criticism. When I mention Old School's model, it's because it also exists and is something to compare the RS3 model to. That's not even mentioning....

YOU are the one who wants to talk about how one game is better than the other - in literally half of the posts I've ever read of yours and any particular thread.

How in the name of Saradomin am I supposed to avoid talking about Old School when literally EVERY. POST. asks of me "how can you ignore Leagues rewards not being made available after the League is over in Old School? Why was Purple Skin (momentarily) only available with Twitch Prime? HILDA, HOW DARE YOU SAY OLD SCHOOL DOES ANYTHING RIGHT?!?!?





If you want me to stop talking about Old School in general, then look in the bloody mirror and choose more relevant lines of questioning. Maybe you should stop mentioning it.

The reason you cannot use your own account to be an ironman is because it's very likely your own account has already made progress without being one. Being an iron has a ruleset that is widely understood, and the challenge that ruleset presents is the entire appeal fo playing one. It's also widely understood Jagex doesn't have the infrastructure to support multiple accounts being linked to one log-in (and maybe even a single subscription) as of yet. It's these limitations that have, since the days of creating pures or skillers, been understood by players when they make a new account with restrictions. However, up until Ironman Mode became an official game mode - it was the player's job to set their own restrictions, and their choice whether or not they wanted to pay the extra sub fee to access additional content on said accounts.
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26-Aug-2022 06:26:33 - Last edited on 26-Aug-2022 06:35:37 by H 1 L D A

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Ironman mode isn't comparable to Leagues (in either game, just in case you're still lost) because you are already playing in the main game - where as FSW, Leagues, DMM, DotD, DarkScape, whatever, have separate, dedicated servers. It's just playing RuneScape, on a regular RuneScape server, with restrictions placed on your account.

Finally? Do you need to be a Member, in either game, to be an Iron? N O. Maybe if you wanted to have the entire start to finish RuneScape experience, but the same is true for any account ever. The difference, is you can genuinely experience Ironman Mode, in F2P, in either game, and make the decision for yourself if you want to -KEEP- playing.
Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed
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26-Aug-2022 06:30:35

Hueless

Hueless

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"
Ironman mode isn't comparable to Leagues (in either game, just in case you're still lost) because you are already playing in the main game - where as FSW, Leagues, DMM, DotD, DarkScape, whatever, have separate, dedicated servers.
"

A bit of a tangent, but:
I disagree. Any mode that is separated from the main user economy is kind of like "Ironman, but on a server-wide scale". You can share resources with users on that server, but not outside of it
*
, just as you would by sharing resources with your GIM partners.

*
(Sort of. You can transfer it from FSW to the main servers, but it's a one-way transfer.)


At the start of FSW, players won't have the ability to instantly buy/sell everything because the GP & items would have to be collected by the participants. Unlike the main servers, buyers with hundreds of millions of GP & sellers with thousands of resource items won't already exist. And with MXT initially disabled (outside of Bonds), players can't just get lucky by redeeming a key or dump real money into generating things.
(And I'm disappointed that it won't stay that way for the entire four-month run.)


It will be interesting to see how the FSW economy forms as a result. I imagine that more competitive players won't want to share their resources, & even more just won't want to sell things because they would be worth more GP later on the main servers.

---

Anyway, I kind of understand why they are limiting it to members -- F2P users wouldn't be able to compete with the training methods available in P2P -- but that doesn't really follow their logic of this event being for returning/new players... It seems more like a competition for experienced/knowledgeable users than anything, & I imagine that it would be more difficult for new players to get into than the main servers. If it really were meant to be what they're saying, then I agree that F2P should be allowed to participate. :/

26-Aug-2022 12:04:16

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@H 1 L D A

You are flip-flopping over and over again. You started from talking all out on "real League" (obviously that's your biased opinion referring to OSRS League), then you wrote you don't want to talk about OSRS, and then in your last 2 posts you made another U-turn and claim you want to talk about "old school's model".

I have no problem with you or anybody trying to talk about OSRS League or any games as long as they are consistent. If you want to compare RS3's FSW to something (OSRS, WOW, or whatever) it is absolutely fine to me, but please be consistent and compare everything and every aspect.

Obviously Jagex is trying to monetize both RS3 and OSRS. Don't just try to mislead us on the unfounded "fear" of MTX in getting FSW rewards in the future when Jagex never said anything about it, while hiding the actual fear that Jagex has been discussing monetizing OSRS Leagues which is revealed in an OSRS Livestream by a current OSRS Jmod.

I have no idea why you suddenly switched the topic to ironman. No ironman allowed in FSW. It is that simple.

26-Aug-2022 15:43:02

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hueless

I think Jagex -is- telling the truth when it comes to their data. (God forbid, I agree with Jagex...) When it comes to what Rs3 -and- OSRS' versions of Fresh Start Worlds offer, both games offer a fresh economy and the chance to start a new adventure alongside your friends (be they current players, fellow friends of yesteryear, or complete noobs) and everyone else. If I were to estimate what those lapsed players surveyed wanted - it would be anything above this line.

RuneScape 3 could have added their rewards and competitive aspects for a number of different reasons. The optimistic reason is probably to see if an "alternative game mode" would interest their playerbase enough to encourage participation. In the past, Rs3 had DarkScape, which had a niche but dedicated following of players but ultimately probably didn't get enough traffic, and a survival-based PvE mode that had a finale that crashed and burned due to a bug or missed input or something. If Jagex sees good results here, it could encourage them to consider coming back to making content like this.

Of course, the potential not-so-fun reason is that Jagex has added the rewards and competition as profit insurance in case they are worried lapsed or newer players -don't- go for the game mode as they hope. Before this weeks addendums, existing members were on the hook to pay for a second membership outright it appeared - but now at the very least Jagex has addressed the concerns as far as extorting cash from existing players.

I do agree with you though - I think more can be done (such as F2P) to truly make this effort feel like an event that targets lapsed players and is accommodating enough to actually reel them in.
Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed
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26-Aug-2022 17:34:15

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

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Dilbert.

The only reason that I am mentioning Old School relative to the topic of RS3's Fresh Start Worlds, is that Old School -also- has Fresh Start Worlds (which is what I mean by their model... Any discussion about "Leagues", "Ironman Mode", etc, is either as I said, relative to potential "new game modes" in the future for RS3, or answering one of your own concerns, seeing as you bring it up so much.

The reason I'm comparing RS3's FSWs, with Old School's FSWs, is that they have the same company line aim according to Jagex, and share the same core mechanics and features (with RS3 perhaps putting too much extra content on top of it in an effort to drum up participation in general). I'm not interested in comparing RS3's Fresh Start Worlds to Leagues in OSRS or anything that very clearly isn't the same thing with the same purpose.

I'm not flip-flopping. You're reading like.....two words in a sentence, ignoring context, and getting hung up on those short phrases instead of looking for the bigger argument.

As for fear of MTX in Old School, that's not my concern. I'm talking about RuneScape 3.

and finally, you simply can't say that any fear of monetization of the rewards is unfounded. The fear of missing out on the rewards led to the change or assurance this week that players could achieve the rewards outside of Fresh Start Worlds. If -Jagex- believes this subsequent fear to be unfounded, then they need to assure players that they are barking up the wrong tree in their assertions next time. "You will be able to get the rewards in the future elsewhere" simply doesn't explain how players should expect these rewards to show up.
Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed
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26-Aug-2022 17:46:08

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