Forums

Comp Cape Rework Dev Update Thread is locked

Quick find code: 16-17-615-66089258

dark1859
Jan Member 2007

dark1859

Posts: 208 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
PixelH8 said :
@dark1869 still haven trouble finding that :p . But i understand what you sre saying no they shouldnt just plain remove some capes thats ridcoules. I just think they have good ideas. Also pvming is part of the game. Comp should give pvm stats if you dont pvm to get the cape that just doesnt make sense. Im almost back to final boss title literally 40 more ed3 dungeons. Honestly pvm isnt complicated. Its enjoyable if you put the time to learn it. Like people love skilling. Im not a huge fan of it but im not going to say remove it from comp because i just want my pvm bonuses.


bottom right hand corner of the desired player's text box, three buttons a speech bubble a triangle warning sign and a reply button, i find the reply button not too useful though.
And I think the argument should be made not to remove pvm as a requirement, but to redistribute it, ie, Make all bosses you can solo (ie magister telos etc) required for comp, and the full on reaper title (every boss) trim requirements. I do believe you should have combat as a requirement for comp, just not group bosses as group content in runescape is some of the most polarizing hit or miss end game content i've seen outside of destiny 1/2's trials of osiris/the nine.

I personally think however, they should perhaps make multiple versions of the comp cape, ie, an elite max cape so to speak which gives most of the benifits of comp but only requires all 99s+120 requirements, a misc cape which has the look of comp but no benifits (requiring all the miscellaneous stuff such as miniquests etc) and a combat comp cape requiring reaper, and the other combat related comp requirements, and when you get all 3 you can make an ut trimmed comp cape, with the trim having those really out of reach reqs like cw. That (imo) seems to get the best of both worlds on the comp debate, making it difficult to truly get it, but more in reach for those currently aspiring.

12-Mar-2019 14:57:19

Ahrkura
Aug Member 2016

Ahrkura

Posts: 234 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'll confess, I have comp Cape.

I am 2 reqs away from MQC.

12 reqs away from trim comp.

I am, to some extent, working towards the last 2.

With that in mind, I actually see the point to a lot of this.

Personally, I feel that Comp Cape IS the biggest achievement, and so it makes sense that the object that has the most requirements should provide the best reward. I also understand that this makes comp Cape the singularly most effective Cape slot item. Variety is the spice of life; that's what motivates this - I, with sadness, understand.

I have 2 small grievances with this idea.

1) T3 Comp is still the most advanced thing in this system, I believe this deserves a special bonus of some kind. As above, the harder something is to get, the greater the reward should be!

2) You mention the passive "cape" bonus (+11 armour, + 3 prayer, +5 style) are unlocked by having ANY T1 meta complete. This directly contradicts your statement about progression and goals. Why is their no reward for any T2 meta, or T3?

I have a solution. Stagger the bonus. If you have ANY T1 meta, then you gain the passive +4 Armour, +1 prayer, and +1 style. With any T2 meta, that bonus improves to +8 armour, +2 prayer and +3 style. With any T3, it becomes +11, +3, and +5 respectively. Numbers are examples from your stat block, of course, but they reward progression, something your current proposal does not.

I would, as a comper, say that maybe the new comp equivalent should have something tastey on top, but I'll leave that up to you! Thoughts, please

12-Mar-2019 14:57:29

Rentaghost

Rentaghost

Posts: 1 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
As a new player the thought of Comp cape is terribly daunting, it would take many years for a new player to achieve this but with these proposals the utility of benefits associated with the content required will be somewhat easier and quicker to achieve. I hope these changes will end up coming to fruition.

12-Mar-2019 15:00:06

Tyrragon
Jun Member 2023

Tyrragon

Posts: 928 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
This proposal correctly identifies many of the issues with comp cape - and then proceeds to entirely misunderstand why they're issues.

New content being added to Comp requirements is not only literally the purpose of Comp , but is also a non-issue that you already solve by adding a grace period during which you can do the new content and retain the cape in the meantime.

Reaper, at the very least, should not be considered a "problematic" requirement. Castle Wars, yes, because minigames are largely dead content anyways outside of spotlight and it's always been a ridiculous requirement anyways. But Reaper? How is "hard PVM content" a problematic requirement for the cape that literally indicates you've done everything? Shove it into trim if you're so worried about it, don't remove it.

While Comp's massive list of bonuses is indeed a problem, the solution is not to move the bonuses to the back slot itself. Remove many of these bonuses from Comp entirely and leave them on the original capes so you're encouraged to use different capes, instead of just defaulting to the one with the highest stats - TokHaar-Kal will become the only cape used if you do this.

Why are you removing QPC, MQC, and Max? Who told you that was a good idea? Who told you a comp cape rework needed these capes to disappear instead of being worked into the new concept? This is starting to seem just like the time you were told we wanted entirely reworked skillcapes so you gave us generic flat bits of tissue paper. If you absolutely must do this, retain Max cape as-is as a skills cape, QPC as a lore cape, a trimmed QPC as a higher-tier one, and MQC as the highest-tier lore cape. And why do Comp capes get to have their current appearances stay in the game when QPC, MQC, and Max don't?

Don't do this. You need more time to consider why the issues with Comp are issues at all. It sounds like you've just listened to a hugbox of compers that don't want to do any work, and came up with trash.
Balance in all things.

12-Mar-2019 15:02:16

River S0ng
Apr Member 2014

River S0ng

Posts: 4,181 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Tyrragon said :
Why are you removing QPC, MQC, and Max? Who told you that was a good idea? Who told you a comp cape rework needed these capes to disappear instead of being worked into the new concept? This is starting to seem just like the time you were told we wanted entirely reworked skill capes so you gave us generic flat bits of tissue paper. If you absolutely must do this, retain Max cape as-is as a skills cape, QPC as a lore cape, a trimmed QPC as a higher-tier one, and MQC as the highest-tier lore cape. And why do Comp capes get to have their current appearances stay in the game when QPC, MQC, and Max don't?


I love your idea on how you set up the Tiers of capes, they should at least consider this as an option, as it's much better than what they came up with.
/
My Goals
\
I Am, I'm Me! Hammer High!

12-Mar-2019 15:07:58

Kemtros
Aug Member 2022

Kemtros

Posts: 5,407 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
5. The grace periods sound good, though I feel that these need to be balanced carefully, since their might be some concerns that some updates would be extremely easy to satisfy in the grace period as soon as they're released, while others could be released without enough time before the lockdown week occurs. This could also cause some stress on the developer, because then they might have to change their plans specifically to account for the grace period, which just seems unnecessary. You mention that you have the option to push the grace period back, but this still seems like it has its own share of risks.

6. "Freezing" the exist comp capes again gets exactly at what it means to devalue them. Without stats or any of their benefits, those capes have no purpose beyond being legacy, and absolutely hurts people who worked hard, or will continue to work hard for those specific capes. The priority of this update should be to rework those specific capes , not replace them with other capes.

7. While I get that the Reaper title will be spread out across the tiers, this didn't in any way address how people may not necessarily be inclined to fight bosses. Granted, that would be beyond the scope of this project, but all this does is spread out problem 3, not fix it. Likewise, the Castle Wars requirement sounds like something that should be a project in its own right.

12-Mar-2019 15:11:24

I am Arthas
Feb Member 2018

I am Arthas

Posts: 58 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
(Opinions of a non-comped peasant)

Grace period? Okay. I think your example went a bit excessive there but I like the idea of it. I still think a point/threshold based system would be better though. Every achievement has a value where you'd need X/Z points for normal comp and Y/Z for trim. All those "true trimmers" out there can still aim for Z points, brag that they got there, and have a bigger grace period when new content is released.

As for the rest of the design proposal... Meh. I'm intrigued by the idea of stats and effects being moved to the player but it seems too generous. Having to put effort into having all of these effects combined was a nice touch. Getting the effect of Ava's device permanently at level 30 with like 14 quest points would just feel bad to me. Having to work at it to "complete the game" or at least get level 99 in the skill feels like a more worthy challenge for gaining that effect.

Now, a quick recap of the problems...

- Stats/utility are too good
- People lose the cape with each update
- Problematic requirements
- Lack of things to aim for

Some form of grace period would remove problem 2. Removal of problem 2 lessens the impact of problem 4, because you can actually add more achievements without people immediately losing their capes, thus more things to aim for.

Stats/Utility? I have a scythe, so why would I use a lance? If I had a Comp cape, why would I use anything less? Upgrading from a lance to a scythe was worth the investment to me because of the vast improvement. The stats/utility of Comp aren't so special that I feel it worth the investment to get.

Which leaves us the problematic requirements. Focus on those instead of an elaborate, complex solution like you have now. There's only a handful of requirements that people find problematic (people don't want to play nicely with others), fix those, add a grace period, and then reevaluate.

People will rage at you no matter what you do, might as well keep it simple.

12-Mar-2019 15:11:54

Archaeox
Dec Member 2011

Archaeox

Posts: 53,399 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Because you only need to complete a single category, you shouldn’t feel compelled to play content you don’t want to anymore.


So does that mean that the lore cape isn't going to need boss combat any more? Because right now far too much lore is hidden behind new bosses.
~~~~ Just another victim of the ambient morality ~~~~

~~ Founder of the Caped Carousers quest cape clan ~~

!! Slava Ukraini - heroyam slava !!

12-Mar-2019 15:14:29 - Last edited on 12-Mar-2019 15:15:01 by Archaeox

Affre
Jun Member 2016

Affre

Posts: 19 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I find the rework very interesting. I think you really doing your job great, honestly. I love all I have read about this rework.
I only have one petition. Please do not remove master quest cape, make it a cosmetic override for those who have it.
I m really in love with the design of that cape. It's the best one, visually.

12-Mar-2019 15:15:05

Taraket
Oct Member 2022

Taraket

Posts: 57 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
This seems like a super convoluted and unnecessary change... Just make a Reaper cape, and strip reqs from comp related to high-level PVM. Then, backfill any reqs that should be on comp. Add smaller grace periods, that's all. Please DO NOT completely overhaul our capes.

Most important of all : Master Quest Cape is not comp - it's a separate entity and it is FINE. Don't remove my favorite cape and the really only fully thought out cape just because... Please. Just funnel all the lore requirements into it and keep the cape the same... It's the best cape in game, in my opinion. I will probably leave RS if this change goes through...

12-Mar-2019 15:15:58

Quick find code: 16-17-615-66089258 Back to Top