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Comp Cape Rework Dev Update Thread is locked

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T EE MO
Aug Member 2014

T EE MO

Posts: 26 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The "not wanting to do the bossing part for the cape" is just people their own problem.
I just suck at bossing and would prefer that the cape has okay stats, and if you complete the bossing / high end pvm tasks, you will get the added bonuses.

Try to look more into content that can be part of the cape, what is still relevant ( max rep gwd2 for example) Or try to make it relevent again.

Grace period should start immediatly, i think the first update week of the month is a nice lockdown period. So we can enjoy the content while gettign the needed achievments.

I think the current design is way to complicated, and having the old comp being legacy is unnessecary. Just give a logn grace period before swapping to a new system.

Seems like opinions are very mixed,

Hop you will figure a nice plan out :)

12-Mar-2019 15:20:24

Tagakhlo
Sep Member 2014

Tagakhlo

Posts: 1,119 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Wow! I wasn't expecting anything like this. But it's worthy of the name rework !

I had thought that the problems with the Completionist Cape would have been fixed in a simple way. Like what?

Well, yes, it has problematic requirements. One could tone them down. So one minigame, I think it's Castle Wars, has a requirement for many hours of participation. All right, reduce that. It requires fighting very high-level group bosses - Solak and Mazcab Raids. All right, give them a 'story mode' between normal and practice mode, like the elite dungeons, and make that good enough for the Completionist Cape.

Weakening a limited number of requirements shouldn't devalue things too much.

It's the absolute best cape in the game. Well, it has the highest requirements, so it should be. The problem is the huge gap between its perks and what comes below.

So if one has a new cape that is almost as good, but only has requirements that are relevant to the people who will want to wear it... that should be good enough.

To be sufficiently "almost" as good, though, the lesser cape would have to include important things like the ability to combine perks.

And maybe the lesser cape would have to be complicated - and maybe your existing proposal for what would replace the comp cape is what it should be. But if the comp cape remains available as a goal - and I think it's fairly reasonable that it should - then the option may exist for the lesser cape to be much simpler, say a master combat cape.

Finally, the comp cape keeps changing, since the game keeps changing. The solution to that is obvious and simple. Freeze the comp cape forever to what it required in 2012 or something like that... with then only small additional perks for making it current. As I've noted before, doing this may involve one complication: changing the trimmed comp cape to the master comp cape, and have both capes become trimmed when current.

12-Mar-2019 15:33:58

Borosouro
Dec Member 2023

Borosouro

Posts: 20 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Non-comped noob here, but as someone who enjoys going for random goals in Runescape a lot, here are my thoughts:

As far as I can tell, the original sin with the Completionist Cape was giving it useful stats that made it desirable to non-completionists. I think that all of the problems you mentioned in the document stem from this, or at least would be non-issues had this not been the case. The first problem in the document is basically the orignal sin I mentioned. The second problem would be a non-issue if comp was cosmetic, as players who just want the stats wouldn't be forced to do new requirements, and true completionists would enjoy the challenge of the new requirements. The third issue is pretty similar to the second issue, since Reaper is only a problem for players who don't actually care about completionism. Castle Wars actually probably is its own can of worms, to be honest, but it can be dealt with on its own, without affecting the rest of the rework. I'm not convinced the fourth problem is actually an issue -- are players too dumb to know what to do after they max without comp cape guiding them? There's tons of smaller goals to achieve after max, and if someone's been playing long enough to max they should already know what they are.

Basically, I think this design is way overengineered. 99% of what needed to be done was just to turn comp into a cosmetic override and add in the missing requirements that would have been added if non-completionists had not been holding us back. You can add some other stuff to throw other players a bone, of course, but the core of the rework should not be that hard. Right now it seems like this design is trying to appeal to everyone, and as a result it appeals to no one. I think it would be better to start from scratch at this point and just go for a minimal design that fixes the original sin of comp.

Tl;dr: K.I.S.S. -- Keep It Simple, Stupid.

12-Mar-2019 15:37:22 - Last edited on 12-Mar-2019 15:44:26 by Borosouro

Caden Gard

Caden Gard

Posts: 1,145 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
"The fourth problem is the lack of objectives to aim for. Once you’re maxed and you’ve completed all quests, the next thing to aim for is Comp Cape, which is quite a lofty achievement. If you’re not going to comp you don’t really have much else to aim for."

I might have only dipped my toe in Reddit so far, but the few opinions I have seen is that making any cape is a great time to take a deep breath and just re-examine your gameplay with fresh eyes. NOT sweat the very next cape right away.

So, do all the Tier 1 requirements become easier, except the "locked in a bank vault with the murderous psychopath quests" Quest Cape?
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12-Mar-2019 15:42:04

Singularity
Aug Member 2023

Singularity

Posts: 97,457 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Whole reason this rework came about was mainly because of the complaints issued whenever a boss came out. It's when the topic of comp cape and its problems always came up.

All you really needed to do was tackle the whole bossing issue and it would have likely been enough.

People that weren't boss hunters or just couldn't kill them no matter how hard they tried felt massively blocked, if not permanently because of what they actually require from a player. This can frustrate people especially if they've worked hard at the cape and put in a significant amount of time into earning and maintaining it. To be then blocked by something you can't do will trigger negative reactions.

PvMers, on the other hand, while they disliked doing the grindy stuff, they were never blocked. Anyone that can kill something like a end-game boss is more than capable of grinding repetitive nonsense. There's no obstacle at all. Their dislike is more about inconvenience than anything else. Either way, they still get their capes and never have to be without it unless they choose to.

A player blocked by a boss feels it a lot more than someone that just dislikes doing something like Livid Farm but is more than capable of actually doing it. It's not the same. And it's the reason why non-combat requirements almost never triggered massive outcries for comp reworks or initiated talks about its requirements and all of its problems.

This rework is just over-complicating things and may end up causing more problems than it's trying to fix.

There's been many good suggestions thrown around on Reddit that are much simpler and would take care of the core problems. Just seems like it's being turned into some massive update for no reason just so you have something to do and call a big update. .

12-Mar-2019 15:45:49 - Last edited on 12-Mar-2019 15:47:07 by Singularity

Lost Rogue
Nov Member 2014

Lost Rogue

Posts: 311 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Ok so 1st please dont remove mqc i love that cape.

2nd it seems you have really over complicated this process

jsut have 3 versions of comp

Completionist Cape (S) - Skiller
Completionist Cape (A) - Adventure/Lore
Completionist Cape (C) - Combat

Move all relevant Comp / Trim req's to there respective cape combining all 3 = Trim

All 3 have identical stats no 1 is forced into content they dont want to do for the bonus's

12-Mar-2019 15:47:11

Dreaming pxl
Apr Member 2011

Dreaming pxl

Posts: 4,317 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I would just like to say that I read through it all and I can see a lot of time and effort, as well as a lot of thoughtfulness has gone into this, which is nice to see.

This is a tricky thing to do, cause every player's playing style needs to be addressed and considered and this is why it may come off as looking too complicated, but every issue with the cape is addressed here. Also a fair few people do not like change, but I don't mind change. Runescape is always changing anyway.

I like the comp cape for it's looks, I have mine customized to suit my personality, so I am glad that a legacy one will still exist. I know many other players that have comp cape for it's looks too.

I have helped so many people over the years achieve their comp capes and have seen way too many people grind to comp, burn out and quit almost immediately after achieving it, so making tiers is good that way.

I do not own the master quest cape, but it is a very niche cape for those that have it, it would be a shame to take that away from them, but perhaps it will still exist as one of the lore cape tiers? It's also a very pretty cape, it would be a shame to see it go.
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12-Mar-2019 15:49:00

River S0ng
Apr Member 2014

River S0ng

Posts: 4,181 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Singularity said :
People that weren't boss hunters or just couldn't kill them no matter how hard they tried felt massively blocked, if not permanently because of what they actually require from a player. This can frustrate people especially if they've worked hard at the cape and put in a significant amount of time into earning and maintaining it. To be then blocked by something you can't do will trigger negative reactions.

A player blocked by a boss feels it a lot more than someone that just dislikes doing something like Livid Farm but is more than capable of actually doing it. It's not the same. And it's the reason why non-combat requirements almost never triggered massive outcries for comp reworks or initiated talks about its requirements and all of its problems.

This rework is going over-complicating things and may end up causing more problems than it's trying to fix.

I agree with what you said about the bossing part. I love to boss, but no matter how hard I try, I just can't do the solo bosses, hence limits my desire to comp.
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12-Mar-2019 15:50:19 - Last edited on 12-Mar-2019 15:52:09 by River S0ng

N H L
Sep Member 2012

N H L

Posts: 209 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Thats why people are going to oldschool jesus f*cking christ! Yea you will add some ELITE trimmed comp or buff trimmed comp stats but not make it easyer.....

[The third big problem is specific problematic requirements - mainly Reaper and Castle Wars. Reaper has two closely related issues - it adds both hard PVM content and forced group content as requirements, which locks players who can’t or won’t do either of those things.

WHOS PROBLEM IS THIS? IF HE CAN´T OR WON´T DO THEN YOU DONT F*CKING GET THIS DAMN COMP OR TRIMM SIMPLE AS THAT! YOU USE REGULAR MAX CAPE OR SKILL CAPE!

Yes solak was hard REQ but there are lot of fc´s helping with some game gp if you dont have skills to kill it.

If they gonna mess this up then i just QUIT......

12-Mar-2019 15:58:41

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