RuneScape Forum Archive | Minigames Rework or Removal

Deltaslug

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For Barbarian Assault, if you want the Staff bumped up to T90-95 and the Pennance Armor to have a T90-95 stats while retaining the prayer restoration, then the whole thing needs to be turned into an elite dungeon raid where you have the risk of dying to a final boss wth 31415927 HP

13-May-2023 14:01:37

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

These all go back to the main point - live data suggests players and consumers don't like to grind all old minigame-ish content repeatedly. Not that Jagex can't put more rewards into old minigames, they simply don't want to do so because putting too much emphasis on old minigames grossly unrelated to present time and future content on the horizon is bad practice for MMORPG, especially living games.

As I mentioned, RS3 learned so by researching successful MMORPGs. Besides, revered MMORPG critics like Asmongold hit the nail on its head by honestly telling Jagex minigame and game mode content like Leagues are only "cherries on the top". They add favors to the main course only when used correctly and sparingly, but not many players come to an MMORPG to play minigames and game modes as its main content. Hence, we have those "cherries on the top" in RS3 like D&D, Flash Events and a variety of time-locked player owned content. Those "cherries" all add nice a nice variety of favors to the main course full of traditional MMORPG content emphasizing in persistent progression based on lore and audio/visual content in a living and breathing world.

13-May-2023 17:14:38 - Last edited on 13-May-2023 17:25:10 by Dilbert2001

May

2023

ShallPrevail

Posts: 583 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

RS3 is dead, there's your live data for yourself.

What was the best version of RuneScape? RS2, What made RuneScape what it is? Yup community minigames are one of the things on that list, which is why you would see a whole list of them in the current game but they are outdated because the new Jagex team never updated them with RS3.

FACT, not skewed data just for a company to try and run their dying community that they cannot handle to the ground for their $$.

BTW Dilbert, there are currently 114,000 players playing Old School RuneScape at this very moment, and there are only 24,000 players playing RuneScape 3. LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

24+24+24+24+24 = ??? 120 yeah thats almost just about 5X the amount that RS3 has, and even better! those are stable numbers, not numbers just over a course of 2 years during a pandemic. rofl

It takes more than just reading a book to be successful, FYI and they should have read their own research from their own past success, it was the best MMORPG of all time after all.......

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13-May-2023 20:44:03 - Last edited on 13-May-2023 21:02:05 by ShallPrevail

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I don't know why certain player keeps trying so hard to disguise the meaningless concurrent player count as "player base" on one hand and then turned around and said they didn't want to talk about OSRS on the other. Even the meaningless concurrent player count doesn't show OSRS has 5x to 10x the number of RS3 whatever even with their self-subitted data.

Old school styles of minigames are dead, in both RS3 and OSRS. That's the fact. Jagex is going with the D&D and Flash Event forms of minigames nowadays in RS3, and OSRS is following the leader. That's the fact. Of course, it is natural selection. If OSRS was so good, why would a lot of their content creators going to play Rust now, instead of the old school Barbarian Assault???

14-May-2023 16:13:28

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

As someone that has played a considerable amount of Old School lately in anticipation for the next chapter in the Fort Forinthry storyline over here, here's what I can tell everyone here about mini-games over there that may be more helpful than "lol nobody plays rs3." or "nobody likes mini-games anymore."

In Old School, most successful mini-games that involve PvP are successful not just because they provide excellent rewards (Last Man Standing actually feels a bit broken in the reward department.) but because PvP in Old School is in a much healthier state than it is in RS3.

Outside of LMS, games like Castle Wars have dedicated worlds but are dead otherwise, and other things like Clan Wars and the Emir's Arena are pretty dead, either because Wilderness PvP exists or because the game itself isn't designed well.

Minigames that don't involve PvP are either skilling-bosses (Wintertodt, Tempoross), Pest Control, or Barbarian Assault - or more recently, are Guardians of the Rift. All of those are popular, but there are caveats.

> Todt is the personal hell for Hardcore Ironmen that ..... aren't very good at keeping their Hardcore status. Because many players will go from 50-99 Firemaking at Wintertodt and there are good unique items as well as huge potential commons for ironmen, that seems to be an important distinction.

> Temp provides the entire playerbase with nice quality of life fishing equipment, as well as the Tome of Water (Todt gives the Fire counterpart.) Everyone kind of does Temp.

> Void is immensely more desirable in OSRS than it is in RS3 as training gear as well as entry-level raiding equipment. In order for PC to ever be worth playing in RS3 again, it's going to require Void actually being revived in some way.

> Barbarian Assault offers the first available strength bonus in the torso slot (the Penance/Fighter Torso) until one is able to obtain a Bandos chestplate. It also has a pet that is randomly awarded, and tasks.

cont.

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15-May-2023 02:34:10

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

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> Guardians of the Rift....is essentially how Runecrafting is trained until one can craft bloods from essence in Zeah. It also has highly necessary rewards as far as the skill is concerned.

Here's what all of that means for my findings.

1. Any of Rs3's PvP mini games are on ice until Jagex can figure out how to make PvP fun in Rs3 again. That's a lot of them. Castle Wars. Fist of Guthix. Clan Wars. Stealing Creation the way it's -supposed- to be played. Etc.

2. Even Old Schoolers are kind of motivated by tangible reward. The only difference is that not many of the mini game rewards encourage quick-paced progression, and most of RS3's actually-appealing rewards are going to progress an account faster because the only thing that matters in Rs3 is getting xp quickly.

3. Don't let Old School's popularity fool you. A very large chunk of actual mini-gamers are of the various types of ironmen and or pure accounts with specific PvP builds. If Jagex can figure out a way to keep currently high-level players making new accounts in Rs3, it's an avenue that could revitalize Rs3's early game, as well as bring people back to old mini-games. Releasing Group Ironman Mode might be a good start in this area.

4. Regardless of which game you play, players are older than they were in the heyday of mini-games. Goals are different. There's a good argument against mini-games in that respect, and that hurts to admit because I would love to see some much needed fixes.

5. If Rs3 is suffering from a population issue, then mini games absolutely should allow players to start games as a solo player. Imagine being able to set the difficulty (and reward threshold if need be) of allied and opposing player spoof npcs to actually play a fully active game of castle wars....

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15-May-2023 02:48:16

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

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It seems like at least some OSRS lovers realize old school minigames in OSRS are as dead as in RS3.

However, they don't realize LMS, Emir Arena and such aren't the kind of minigames RS3 players and Jmods want. These are dueling/staking/gambling activities that don't add a thing to the MMORPG progression. RS3 explicitly removed Duel Arena for the reason of gambling. That's why they don't add staking/gambling type of minigames to RS3, by design.

RS3 does have pvp minigames the non-gambling variety. We have Warbands, Sinkholes etc only that they actually give rewards that add to the RPG experience and progression of RS3 players, and not just serve as mean of gambling or transfer of wealth/items between 2 players.

Skilling minigames? We absolutely have that in RS3. Creosus ia actually a minigame by its own right. BGH, Herby Werby, Herblore Habitat, Runespan etc etc are all skilling minigames that are highly popular. Don't even get me into the older ones like POP and Evil Trees (that inspire OSRS to mimic them with the upcoming Sailing and Forestry) and Shooting Stars which OSRS also copied.

What about Wilderness Flash Events? They are absolutely immensely popular in RS3, and what makes them even better is they have both skilling and killing elements all up to the preference of all kinds of players.

Now, for those who are explicitly fond of old minigames, I think the more realistic scenarios for them to receive great improvements is when the upcoming content are tied into them. For example, Barrows have seen a lot of great improvements, all the way leading to T90 rewards from RotS, because of (then) new major content of Sliske. Barrows may get another boost with Necromancy because it is necromancy themed anyway. Otherwise, why should RS3 even touch BA, Pest Control and such antiquated content when the ongoing stories don't call for them?

15-May-2023 16:12:46 - Last edited on 15-May-2023 16:17:26 by Dilbert2001

May

2023

ShallPrevail

Posts: 583 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

You should not compared OSRS content to RS3, you'll never make the game revitalized if you do so, the only reason why OSRS was brought up previously was to show what Jagex's players preferred, if RS3 was truly going in the right direction and supplied a great game then it wouldn't be extremely less populated than OSRS, and it has been like that ever since OSRS was released.

Jagex has literally ignored PVP and community minigames on RS3 in their main game for 10-15 years and the games literally drained to a bare minimum player base, that says a lot with what players prefer as well. It will be nearly impossible to get new players for the game unless they create a fun inviting environment for people to join and the only thing they receive when they log into RS3 is a very heavily focused SOLO experience.

BORING

Player ages and goals have nothing to do with anything, if the games fun and a great experience then you will attract players, there's nothing else to it. You can't expect people to enjoy a game that provides far less content than what it used to have with just better graphics, we aren't doorknobs with no brains which is why OSRS is far superior than RS3 in terms of player base #'s.

Have you ever heard of the person who ate paint to avoid pain? Maybe people are playing OSRS to try to feel what they used to with RS2. RS3 is nowhere close to being similar to RS2 in terms of content and community and people clearly hate it. This means that people might not even like OSRS but it's the best thing that they have..............

Once again 109,000 people are currently online playing OSRS and only 24,000 are on RS3. 24+24+24+24+24 = 120 Almost 5X the amount, These numbers almost never change in differential.

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15-May-2023 22:21:49 - Last edited on 15-May-2023 22:31:14 by ShallPrevail

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

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Why should Jagex touch things like Pest Control and Barbarian Assault when the current ongoing stories aren't related to them?

Not so long ago, Jagex didn't have an update schedule that was so entwined with the active story arc, and aside from pidgeonholing development efforts to specific places on the world map for possibly up to years at a time and serializing what used to be a wide exploration and adventure experience into an episodic romp for a playerbase that is weighed closer to the endgame on average more than ever before, moving much needed attention away from projects that could use more work than the Ninja team could throw some stars at is yet another criticism I would levy against Mod Jack and Mod Keeper here.

I say all of that above, while actually being a fan of the direction in many respects. I think Jagex can afford to, every once in a while, stray from the storyboard to update something simply because they want to, or because they think players would really want something.

What about X and Y D&D's? Or Croesus?

I am going to refer to Croesus the same way that Jagex does. It's a boss encounter that requires skilling levels and equipment to complete as opposed to a mini-game. I will compare it OSRS' examples here because it's relevant. Doing Croesus well is somewhat difficult. It also "feels" like a boss encounter in a way that Wintertodt and Tempoross don't. And I have to give it to the RS3 team here. That's pretty commendable. (I know I mistakenly referred to Todt and Temp loosely as mini-games earlier. Those are low-effort and take time.)

Distractions and Diversions are popular because they hardly take any time out of a gamer's play session. These aren't "games" so much as they are "errands" and feel more equitable to checking your POF animals or drinking your Tears of Guthix for the week.

Are all of the above really fun? Absolutely. But are they "mini-games?" No.

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16-May-2023 00:34:20 - Last edited on 16-May-2023 00:38:34 by H 1 L D A

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

The player's age has nothing to do with anything. If you build it [fun], players with come [play]....

If only that were true.

1. If you are pking in Old School RuneScape, you need to have a much higher ability to do so than you did back in 2007. This is because currently the Wilderness PvP rage is what's affectionately referred to as "No-Honoring" at Wilderness resource/PvM hotspots, which is essentially no-holds-barred tribrid fights that require a significant amount of skill managing prayers, gear swaps, game ticks, and even how to stall your opponent on obstacles. In 2007, Edgeville Pking (which OS hopes to revive with Bounty Hunter for the umpteenth time.) had some semblance of order and did not require players to meet a high skill threshold for the most part in order to enjoy it. This is because Pkers are older and understand the game differently on average.

2. If you're skilling in either game - you are going to probably use supplementary source material (like the Wiki) to figure out how to most effectively gain XP the fastest. This wasn't always the case back in 2007, where people were likely to do whatever training method they liked until they abandoned it when their friends logged in so they could just play a mini-game and have fun. This desire for efficiency is absolutely relevant, because for many players, playing efficiently can actually be a "fun" experience, and any mini-game that would hope to rival a playerbase that lives on efficiency highs would need to try and compete. Players are generally older today and understand that efficiency saves time, and perhaps have allowed the need for it to replace the need to mindlessly be entertained.

3. If players are older, they are more likely a part of the workforce. They probably have more representative roles in their families. Their time is demanded by more forces than RuneScape than it was back in 2007. Mini-games? Time sinks. So you have to balance gains with fun.

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16-May-2023 00:54:50 - Last edited on 16-May-2023 01:02:17 by H 1 L D A

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Minigames Rework or Removal