RuneScape Forum Archive | HP "Consultation" Ft. Hilda

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Because it's not a problem in Old School and you're pushing a completely false narrative there. This is another one of your trademarks. Whataboutism. Rather than talk about utter nonsense, let's go back to Hero Pass.

In the same breath Ryan said he was sticking around, he pointed out that he was not a fan of Hero Pass. Protoxx? Not a fan of Hero Pass. Maikeru? Not a fan of Hero Pass. Chevalric? Not a fan of Hero Pass. Init Yeah? Not a fan of Hero Pass. All of these messages ranging from a month ago to today.

There has not been a significant shift in attitude. Creators are plunging in attitude and many of them are leaving the game

Then you have a message from Mod Warden, in which Jagex has the most sincere message regarding all of this, saying "they messed up" and that they were "sorry."

.....and yet, Hero Pass is still being pushed as inevitable, and the expectation is that players fall in line, accept their fate, and voice their opinions outside of its removal.

If Jagex is going to continue to be disingenuous, then I won't have any remose responding to them in kind.

Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed

- July 31st, 2022

27-Sep-2023 21:16:09

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,311 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Because content creators going to better paid games is not a problem in just RS3, and you're pushing a completely false narrative there. This is another one of your trademarks. Whataboutism.

Rubbish is just rubbish. This is another of your trademarks. I am not a fan of MTX either. I never paid real money for MTX items, but it doesn't mean I am specifically negative on Hero Pass. TheRSGuy said clearly at (00:40) content creators leaving RS3 because of a combination of reasons, not just Hero Pass. Getting paid more is definitely the bigger reason.

RS3 definitely have made the changes. Players are playing fine and you still have yet to show us any negative comment about the latest Hero Pass update 5 days ago.

27-Sep-2023 21:25:29

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I guess I should be flattered you try to play my words back at me even when it makes zero sense whatsoever - except you do that with everyone you disagree with.

Ryan clearly said he wasn't a fan of Hero Pass. That qualifies as a negative Nancy take even if he doesn't elucidate further and talks about why it is a part of several issues at once. Maikeru, Protoxx, Waydots, etc. have given the same opinion, often with the same myriad of issues. That doesn't mean you can reduce Hero Pass into a lesser issue, it means that RuneScape 3 is suffering multiple issues at once. That's a B A D thing.

You would think, that Jagex wouldn't want to segregate opportunity for all of their creators and would instead try to make both of their games equally lucrative for all of them. One game sees near zero MTX and a remarkably loose Third-Party client that boosts cinematography on top of a much simpler game to grasp. While complexity isn't always a bad thing, the other game has nearly ten different ways to separate players from their hard earned money and discourages the use of third-party clients that could boost viewing experience. That's a bit strange because both games are run by the same company, so having equity shouldn't come at the risk of losing market share or anything.

What's not a false narrative, is that all of the above creators have cited Hero Pass as -a- reason for their departure. I've never said it was -the- reason, but in the context of whether or not this update is a good one, the results speak for themselves.

Here's how that relates to yet-to-be-seen changes to Hero Pass you keep wanting me to bash on their behalf. There's no assurance whatsoever that those players come back to the game when or especially because those changes are in place.

You notably haven't once disagreed with me with regards to Jagex essentially forcing the issue on players as opposed to having a genuine open discussion about its very existence and moving from there.

Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed

- July 31st, 2022

27-Sep-2023 21:39:13 - Last edited on 27-Sep-2023 21:41:32 by H 1 L D A

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,311 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

He is not a fan of MTX, Bond MTX included. I am also not a fan of Bond MTX, meaning I just want to spend real money to get in game gp. So what?

OSRS has near 0 MTX is just a bad lie.

Yes, it is shameful the same Jagex doesn't have the equality for RS3 and OSRS content creators. It is a farce to the video game industry.

"You notably haven't once disagreed with me with regards to Jagex essentially forcing the issue on players as opposed to having a genuine open discussion about its very existence and moving from there."

I have no idea where you get this from? I have been telling you we are going to have a Community Consultation that everybody can participate. I don't see anybody not appreciating it.

27-Sep-2023 21:48:39

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

That might be my favorite post of yours. Put that one on the fridge. Talk like that more often and I could almost stomach of the thought of clinking Asgarnian Ales with you.

I'll allow you to interpret "near" as you wish. Relative term, not really my point here.

What's not relative though, is that at 8:15 in the video, Ryan says in verbatim, "I am not a fan of the Hero Pass." He isn't qualifying that he's opposed to MTX. He's definitely not saying that he's waiting with bated breath to see how the community consultation shakes out. He's just saying that in spite of this update being a bad one in his eyes, he's going to stick around because he loves RuneScape 3.

That makes him no different than myself - and frankly, that was a video he didn't have to post at all. People already know Ryan is a pro-RS3 guy and has invested a lot of himself into this game from not only a player's perspective but of that of a community leader.

That makes the quote "I'm not a fan of Hero Pass" something that should be made note of in particular. He took the time to record it - it mattered enough to put it out there apart from his statement about MTX.

If Jagex is going to -listen- to players, that's what listening looks like.

Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed

- July 31st, 2022

27-Sep-2023 22:02:15

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,311 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

When someone says he is not a fan of whatever, it doesn't mean he sees no improvement over that whatever.

A skiller may not be a fan of bossing, but it doesn't mean Jagex has to listen to skilles and remove bossing.

27-Sep-2023 22:05:27

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

That didn't last very long.

A majority of all types of players not liking Hero Pass isn't quite the same thing as Skillers disliking boss content.

That's not even mentioning that even if they don't like boss content, they could freely change their mind and attempt it free of charge without having to worry that Jagex is trying to backdoor a way to make it cost extra somehow. Yes - I don't trust Jagex enough to keep the Hero Pass MTX-free. They very well could be trying to ride out the initial negative PR.

That's not mentioning that engaging in boss content doesn't outright make skilling content quantifiably easier for people who kill bosses somehow, which is what content buffs introduced to Hero Pass - and it's another area where Jagex should know I'm weary as a consumer about their direction here. In one of the two newest newsposts, they brought up thinking about how to deal with buffs in future passes, and I think it would make this bad situation drawn out longer if they did. I can't trust the company to act in good faith here either.

There is no "improving" a universally panned update for a majority of players. It was released. It alienated a lot of us, including many of the most well known players, Jagex has had to backtrack on multiple fronts, and now they want to shove the update down our throat by forcing players to put "constructive input" into it and take ownership of the problem.

At best, the update is forgettable and ignored by a majority of the gameplay. There is no world where this thing becomes a "great major content update."

Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed

- July 31st, 2022

27-Sep-2023 22:14:28 - Last edited on 27-Sep-2023 22:16:46 by H 1 L D A

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,311 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

^^
Complete nonsense. Reminder for the over 9,000 times: you still have yet to tell us who don't like the latest Hero Pass blog 5 days ago and who asked to remove it.

Meanwhile, I can show you exactly what Init_Yeah said about the lates Hero Pass:

Now let's look at what exactly did some content creators say after the last Hero Pass update 5 days ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3El_8AUHxw

(02:00)

The hell you want it right, I guess uh it makes quite a big difference if it (Daily Mission points) from 375 to 1050.

(03:46)

I mean it makes sense that if you don't log in you don't get rewards... but it is better than the original thing by far.

(04:29)

This (Community Consultation) is really good and this is a massive win for Jagex to not just go right we're doing it just have it um and they are actually asking us first and this is definitely good.

(07:36)

Good. This is exactly what we should have done in the first place.

(08:22)

3 TH keys and prismatic lamps. Cool.

(09:00)

If they do all the Community Consultation, panels, survey then this is top tier, this is great, this is this is what we need to see.

(12:00)

Player Panels. Good it is a good thing and not just for Hero Pass. You should keep it forever

(13:48)

The only thing I didn't like was the Content Buffs (but they are now removed from Hero Pass).

27-Sep-2023 22:45:44

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

> "better than the original" is not a very high bar to clear in this particular instance. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

> Community consultation has never been the thing I've complained about, but its usage is more than a let down. Jagex is asking us to save this update for them because they refuse to remove it. They won't poll it, and they'll be asking very specific questions in the survey that don't indicate that its removal will be an option. There isn't an assurance that players on the panel will be able to hold the viewpoint that the Pass should be axed entirely. What we have here, for the over-9000th time, is a shift of responsibility. Jagex is looking for all of the credit and none of the blame - and they DESERVE to be called out for it.

> Exactly what we should have done in the first place is a baseline expectation. It is not a mark of greatness or acclaim, but of merely being acceptable. Ask Init Yeah if Hero Pass is a great update without him saying something like this should have been this way from the very start.

> Those keys and lamps are going to be moved to Daily Challenges once they return this coming month. This isn't even a praise point for Hero Pass at this point.

---

"It's not that I don't want to play the game, I love the game, I want the game to succeed!.. and you know, this makes me annoyed, because it [Hero Pass] is not going to succeed."

Maikeru, before going on hiatus.

"I am not a fan of Hero Pass."

The RS Guy

"...They will get a lot of hate on the [Hero Pass] project, which I agree with..."

Chevalric.

"...I challenge Jagex to make it right, REMOVE HERO PASS, take a step back, and actually listen to the community, that is clearly upset..."

Protoxx.

"...its lot about Hero Pass and Necromancy...the vibe is not great...."

Waydot.

Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed

- July 31st, 2022

28-Sep-2023 01:05:37

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,311 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

"> "better than the original" is not a very high bar to clear in this particular instance. That's exactly what I'm talking about."

The exact quote is "but it is better than the original thing

by far

."

Your disingenuous self shows again. I have timestamped and spelled out many of the key and very positive comments. Everybody can read themselves. I don't think too many RSOF users don't know what "by far" means.

"> Community consultation has never been the thing I've complained about"

Your complaint is Jagex has changed nothing and nobody like Hero Pass. The fact tells you almost everybody likes Community Consultation and most think the latest Hero Pass is much improved.

"> Exactly what we should have done in the first place is a baseline expectation. It is not a mark of greatness or acclaim, but of merely being acceptable. Ask Init Yeah if Hero Pass is a great update without him saying something like this should have been this way from the very start."

Your disingeneous mind pops up again. Init Yeah clearly is very positive with the new Hero Pass.

" it makes quite a big difference", " better than the original thing by far", "this is a massive win for Jagex", "this is great, this is this is what we need to see", "You should keep it forever"

These are all extremely positive comments, not just barely acceptable.

Why you keep showing us comments from players 2 weeks ago before latest updates 5 days ago that all kinds of positive comments shot out afterward?

FYI, some of the RS3 content creators paid to pay OSRS GIM still play RS3. Even OSRS players like Gnonmonkey still play RS3. He was just having a lot of fun doing Mega Duck with the wonderful RS3 community. Of course, he gained Hero Points too. Happy?

28-Sep-2023 01:24:42

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HP "Consultation" Ft. Hilda