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HP "Consultation" Ft. Hilda

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H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
F Mods: Hero Pass is, apparently, an ongoing discussion and constantly evolving around newspost updates. I want to apologize if this is now old content by this point, but I truly believe this is the best place for it at this time as it's still technically the latest update we've gotten to the game of note.

---

I would like the to open my free consultation as a member of the community regarding Hero Pass in the vein of Mean Girls' Regina George.

"Stop trying to make players enjoy Hero Pass happen. It's not going to happen."

Now, I know Jagex has already considered "I don't want Hero Pass" to be a non-constructive bit of criticism, to which I must stress that the company is off base in making such an assertion. If players believe the battle-pass doesn't accomplish the goal of making players engage with the game more writ-large (and an awful lot of players out there are verbally voicing this opinion.) then regardless of how much time Jagex has toiled on this update and how much they endeavor to do so, players simply don't want it in game. This happened with previous attempts at adding a battle-pass before.

If criticisms like the above are considered genuinely fair game by Jagex - and Jagex has the ability to post a genuine "Why Hero Pass anyway" as opposed to drowning us in corporate-speak (if they REALLY need to keep it in the game), then, and ONLY THEN, will this consultation process feel legitimate and earnest. Right now, I feel like the company is selling snake oil.

(cont.)
Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed
- July 31st, 2022

22-Sep-2023 22:55:55

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Now, I'd like to actually comment on the coming changes to Hero Pass and the FAQ that was given.

Proposed Balancing Changes


If I'm to be stuck with Hero Pass, this is actually quite ideal. Everyone that plays routinely should be able to reach 120 on the track here - and if the pass isn't going to include elements of MTX such as skips or putting useful items on the premier track predominantly - then you have yourself a very workable battle-pass that players might actually like. The issue, again, is that you should probably know if players even care enough to want the battle-pass in the first place. Even at its absolute best, a battle-pass will not move the needle in a positive direction for me as a player.

Future Hero Passes?


The suggested balancing, or one that players have a significant amount of agreement over, had better be the same each and every time. It's important for these things to have a consistent enjoyable experience - again if you have to have it in the first place.

Why aren't we polling these changes?


"We already know it's possible a majority of players don't want Hero Pass at all." :(

Ironmen...


Kind of amazing how your biggest pitch for Ironman mode is "You don't have to deal with MTX!" and as a result, nobody knows what the spirit or acceptable integrity level for ironman should be in said community. I had a chuckle in an earlier thread of mine when an iron appeared and said they didn't want anything from Hero Pass, because that's what I had thought Ironman was about.

As a non-iron, my contention is that Irons should not get experience lamps, and should be able to get cosmetic items and other things that hold no bearing on actual gameplay.

(cont.)
Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed
- July 31st, 2022

22-Sep-2023 23:09:28 - Last edited on 22-Sep-2023 23:10:25 by H 1 L D A

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Content Buffs


Admittedly, I got a little huffy when initially reading this part because Jagex, you were very loudly told players don't want content buffs in the Hero Pass, so how in the world does it seem like this kind of stuff is still on the table. I thought we had passed this issue entirely - and it seemed like all of a sudden, you were just waiting out the negative PR storm...

"And beyond it" is a very important phrase players should take from that newspost, and it's one that is going to allow me to calmly address this point.

I know that it was earlier brought up that players seemed to enjoy the buffs brought about by the Golden Cape Event in some earlier Hero Pass post. What made those buffs acceptable were that they were simply given to all players as a part of a targeted treasure-hunt collectathon for cape shards that was fun to try and complete quickly, and once the profit or cosmetic was obtained, felt rewarding afterwards for the duration of the buffs.

The Hero Pass introduced buffs on the premier track predominantly, which meant that those who purchased the track or PC had a distinct advantage over those who didn't when it came to accumulating those buffs early and being able to use them.

On top of that, ANY buff to PVM is going to get met with stiff resistance, especially when you can do much better things with in-game content to connect players with bosses, such as improving the practice mode and assistance systems, or releasing skills and gear that make bossing easier over time. The last thing anyone in this bunch (which is unrivaled as bossing is absolutely king content-wise now) wants is for there to be a lack of integrity or an inbred reliance on crutches while bossing.

My recommendation?

1. Keep Hero Pass content-buff-free.

2. Focus content buffs around in-game events (Free Death Costs, Cape/PHat hunts, etc.)
Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed
- July 31st, 2022

22-Sep-2023 23:25:01

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,311 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
"and if the pass isn't going to include elements of MTX such as skips or putting useful items on the premier track predominantly - then you have yourself a very workable battle-pass that players might actually like. "


We don't have skips and content buffs now, so it should be a "very workable battle-pass that players might actually like" now.

"The suggested balancing, or one that players have a significant amount of agreement over, had better be the same each and every time. It's important for these things to have a consistent enjoyable experience - again if you have to have it in the first place."


The format is likely going to be consistent but the theme will obviously vary. We aren't going to have Hero Pass: Underworld every 3 months. The rewards will be different too. RS3 is not a cookie cutter game that recycles the same content over and over again.

"Why aren't we polling these changes?

"We already know it's possible a majority of players don't want Hero Pass at all."


I don't know where is the source of your quote, but the actual reason they aren't polling the changes is exactly as follow:

"WHY AREN'T YOU POLLING THESE CHANGES?
You've been loud and clear on this topic, and the priority for us now is to fix it. A dev blog is a good compromise in making sure that we're still checking back with you that we're doing the right thing.

Rather than just yes/no, we want to hear your thoughts. Is this what you want to see from the balancing? Is it hitting the right areas?"


"I had a chuckle in an earlier thread of mine when an iron appeared and said they didn't want anything from Hero Pass, because that's what I had thought Ironman was about."


So you realized different IM have different opinions apparently. That's fine, but please read on for what Jagex officially told us:

23-Sep-2023 17:34:17 - Last edited on 23-Sep-2023 17:42:51 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,311 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
(continued from the last post)

"So far our investigations with the Ironman community have been inconclusive. Some want to see the daily XP return and some are happy it's gone. When daily challenges return, the XP from them will be available to ironmen as well as it was before. We will work with ironmen to get a clearer and more consistent approach to this sort of issue during the consultation."


That's right! Jagex noticed different opinions from different IM, so they are going to work with ironmen (plural) and not just one IM like you or the other one you don't agree with.

"Admittedly, I got a little huffy when initially reading this part because Jagex, you were very loudly told players don't want content buffs in the Hero Pass, so how in the world does it seem like this kind of stuff is still on the table. I thought we had passed this issue entirely - and it seemed like all of a sudden, you were just waiting out the negative PR storm..."


I don't see where the content buff is "still on the table".-
"CONTENT BUFFS HAVE BEEN DISABLED WITHIN THE HERO PASS"
is what I obviously see in the Hero Pass BUFFS interface.

Can you please show us where you see "still on the table"?

23-Sep-2023 17:34:52 - Last edited on 23-Sep-2023 17:54:38 by Dilbert2001

Mini JIT
Oct Member 2014

Mini JIT

Posts: 2,211 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
For irons it was 2 different issues on daily challenges being removed and rewards from HP being junk, but Jagex made it into 1 issue.

210k xp daily (more if 120 skills) x 365 x 9 years = close to 700m xp which is more than 10% of total max xp. Removing that for new accounts not to benefit was just silly. Yes, there may be higher level irons who want it removed so others cannot catch up to them on high scores after they themselves have used it for so long.

Irons already had the choice not to take part in daily challenges, and keeping it gives everyone a choice.

As for HP, as long as you earn the rewards from game play, they should be available. They should never be buyable with skips or bonds.

Thats just my opinion and should be voted on by irons only with 1k+ total levels which had logged in within the last 3 months before the changes like we use to. No new iron alts should have a vote.

23-Sep-2023 19:40:44

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
How are content buffs still on the table?


Listed under "Feedback Coverage" in the Community Consultation newspost:

We will have deeper conversations on the concerns with Content Buffs - both within Hero Pass and beyond it.


The format is likely to be the same!


I hope you're right, Dilbert, but when hypothetically asking themselves about future hero passes, Jagex seems to indicate that it
"won't necessarily"
be the same. If you think I'm silly about reacting to it the way that I did, I encourage you to watch Protoxx's reaction to the newspost, where he audibly goes "wait, what?" after reading those words.

---

The rest of your cut-ins are the following.

1. Disrespectful in tone. Please don't talk down to me about something you know nothing about it. If they aren't your words, don't claim to know their intent better than anyone else (myself and others have had to tell you this often).

2. Bait. It's pretty well known that Jagex could go so far as hypothetically kidnap one of your loved ones, and rather than object to them doing so, you would find some way to argue with other posters about how Jagex is actually doing the right thing by doing so. You're so deep in their pocket that having discourse with you about the game, even when it comes to truly harmful pain-points you would expect a fellow consumer to relate with, is simply not possible. It's one thing to defend the game and it's developers when the controversy is more down the middle. It's another to put yourself on an island and as a result, waste other people's time.

3. Ignorant of context. I'm not an ironman - but given how you responded, you didn't know that, and I would bet money it was because you cherrypicked a portion of my response and decided to rail me over it. That's -hardly- the only example from you.
Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed
- July 31st, 2022

25-Sep-2023 05:35:47 - Last edited on 25-Sep-2023 05:37:17 by H 1 L D A

CaptKoloth
Feb Member 2008

CaptKoloth

Posts: 10,676 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Original message details are unavailable.
Apparently constructive criticism is always about changing garbage. It is never about removing garbage.

Bring back Spin to win. This crap is no better. At least he was funny.

25-Sep-2023 20:45:57

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