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Divi
Jul Member 2022

Divi

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Seriously, I think the bind requirements are a good deal less strict than they use to be. Sag bows would never have been tolerated as a acceptable bind pre EOC. Things like mage robes were frowned upon, but now both have acceptable uses.

We say you have to use 2 styles efficiently. That is more of a technicality than anything. We had some people that said "Fine. I'll bind a primal 2h and just let it sit in my inventory to satisfy the requirement." Noes. You can't just do that. We do things based on the spirit of the law, not the letter of it.

The hood topic. This is one that has been discussed for about a year now. This time last year we weren't ready to do away with them. But over time most people began seeing that the hood was not the end game bind it was hyped to be. By a couple months ago hoods had all but phased out of dg4fun. Not through any rules either. It was added on by me to the new rules we did right before EOC came out as a after thought. I thought that no one would really mind doing away with it. I was in favor of no one using it. I still am in favor of no one using it. But its foolish to dismiss its current use for tribriding. Therefore we finally said hoods were allowable for people without armor since the uses it has are completely negated by wearing armor of any sort.

I have heard few complaints about the hoods removal. I have heard next to nothing about its being reallowed also. Though as Kio said it could be this that is the problem some people are having "Its that accepting feeling thats been lost for me, rather than 1 specific rule that has ruined everything" rather than the hood specifically.

The no using momentum really comes down to jagex. They added it as a way to throw a bone to people who cling to old rs. It has its uses for slaying or something such as tds, but the fact remains that people who use abilities are without a doubt going to out class people using momentum. Jagex is only going to widen this as we progress through EOC.

16-Jan-2013 21:41:05

Divi
Jul Member 2022

Divi

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The no using momentum really has to do with the above. We simply are trying to make it through EOC and one of the critical things to that was getting people to get use to using abilities. Which mostly everyone has gotten adjusted to using abilities. We did not want to cling to old rs since you can be assured jagex will not.

@Antihero,
You can still wear a top and legs of 1 style while having 2 weapons of another. People really want the armor that much that they would prefer having a top, bottom, and helm/coif over a 2nd weapon? I could understand the argument if the armor offered offensive stats like range and mage armor use to. But they literally only offer combat penalties. Ok so you could argue the increased defense. But I see that as no benefit either. Surviving in floors is the same as before. You pick up food and eat it. It's as simple as that. Except now you can't get koed as easily. Dying is only for people like me. I'm some combination of to lazy, to jaded, to focused on progressing through a side path quickly to pick up food. Anyone who doesn't want to die has to do nothing more than pick up and eat the plentiful amount of food on the floor. That amount has only increased since more people are using and needing to pick up less and less food.

16-Jan-2013 21:52:50

Divi
Jul Member 2022

Divi

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Not trying to be argumentative. I'm just trying to explain the reasoning behind everything we have done so far. If the general feeling is that we are less accepting than we should be, then perhaps we need to revisit some of these rules. Antihero has a good point also "Things like hood - are we sure anyone would even complain now if people were sporting hood+platebody combos? Per-eoc, sure. But now? We might be looking to prevent something that we don't need to be preventing, and are coming up with redundant rules that chip away at that feeling of acceptance while not necessarily doing us any good."

Occam's Razor is usually applicable to everything.

16-Jan-2013 21:56:02

Divi
Jul Member 2022

Divi

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Also be aware that we are not blind to the amount inactivity that has been occuring in the fc lately. The friends list use to always be right at 200. It's now closer to 180. While that in and of itself is not the root of the issue I am at a loss as to what is. Is it EOC? Dung in general (most people that are going to dung have already done so?)**** in general (less people playing rs or at the least a larger outflux of older members with the requirements for dg4fun compared to the influx of new people), leeching is to common and popular? or is the problem simply us? We are doing something fundamentally wrong that is discouraging people from dunging. Realistically it may be all of these things, but the only one we can actually do anything about is the last one.

16-Jan-2013 22:06:52

Evertim

Evertim

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I don't think it's about not dying or anything as much it is the concept of simply being able to maximize one specialty. There's just something that feels good about that.

Then again since I am not one of those people, I can't really speak for them. That's simply something that I could *** contributing to the feeling of not belonging/not being accepted for some people.

16-Jan-2013 22:22:09 - Last edited on 16-Jan-2013 22:26:34 by Evertim

Evertim

Evertim

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Just some things I'd like to throw out there - not trying to start a debate on hoods, but things to think about.

When hoods were disallowed from dg4fun floors:

- Non-hooded players took a lot of damage whilst solo pathing/pathing with hooded players
- dg4fun members tended to stay together in a group while pathing
- Hood was taking the place of a dps increasing bind
- We only had up to 4 binds to use
- They had negative stats
- We could pray against mages, forcing them to take time to dehood us served no real purpose



All of these things have changed drastically since EoC, and I'm probably leaving a thing or two out. Just food for thought.

16-Jan-2013 22:46:52 - Last edited on 16-Jan-2013 22:48:17 by Evertim

Dster0
Jul Member 2005

Dster0

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Yes those are all good points about the hood. However, if you already have a body armor bound, is it better to have a hood or some other item bound? Wouldn't having another body bound be better? Does the hood make that huge of a difference against mages in our style where we stand in the room instead of running through it?

17-Jan-2013 01:35:18

Evertim

Evertim

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Are we talking in the interest of efficiency? If so, then the advantage a hood provides comes from forcing mages to deactivate it instead of weakening/binding you (as you know). The longer a floor is, the more times this is going to happen, meaning the benefit is actually greater in kabde floors - getting bound/weakened hurts kabde in the same way it hurts rushes. But that's not even the main reason it should be allowed, imo.

I don't think having another body bound is ever preferable if you have access to a hood. If you need the extra accuracy for the odd monster or two, simply remove your platebody. I think even whilst hexing in a platebody, the accuracy is high enough (on range-weak monsters) to not need to remove it - and even then, you can always do just that for the odd kill or two. There's really no advantage to not having a hood, but there is at least some advantage to having one.

My point is simply this:

Hood is no longer a big deal (and never really was, imo). Let's not treat it as such - it's not anywhere near significant enough to dedicate an entire rule to it.

17-Jan-2013 03:41:25 - Last edited on 17-Jan-2013 03:57:29 by Evertim

Dster0
Jul Member 2005

Dster0

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Rowun, I meant have two tops with one for each combat style. For example, have a range top and a bow along with a melee top and a sword. That would mean switching the top with the weapon.

Evertim, maybe with a hex that is true. Since I have never used one I am using my experiences with a gravecreeper shortbow and a celestial staff. Both fair fairly poorly without the appropriate top, in my experience. But you're saying that with a hex that the best bind set up is: *ex, 2h, plate, and hood? Assuming someone is 100 dungeoneering.

I know that the hood makes the mages unhood you before weakening you, but they still do weaken you in subsequent attacks, correct? If we stand in rooms for longer in KABDE, wouldn't that give us a greater chance of being weakened and snared as well even with a hood deflecting the first magical attack of the room?

I know hoods aren't a big deal, but I do want to understand their pros and cons in light of EOC before deciding on hood related rules.

17-Jan-2013 18:24:15

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