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BN will be considerably better than a hood, especially for KABDE. It increases your DPS by a bare minimum of 5% on average, which I believe is more than it did pre-EoC. I feel like pulse effect is more powerful relative to how it was before as well considering monsters do less damage and 300 seems to be a bigger % of most player's lifepoints and damage than 40 was.

If a player is comfortable dungeoneering with only a hood (and no plate), then ideally they would only start using a plate at 120 while using a hood as their only defensive bind until then.

In KABDE it's fairly easy to keep your adrenaline at 50% or more for a good portion of the dungeon (as long as you remember to utilize defensive abilities at appropriate times), so I tend to focus mages down first before they have a chance to bind/weaken. Most of them don't live through 1-2 thresholds if I'm not mistaken. I think the combination of hood and prioritizing mages first would result in a smaller chance of getting weakened or bound than in rush floors - especially because it's more difficult to manage your adrenaline in rushes, so there's a higher frequency of guardian doors where you cannot immediately use thresholds on a mage to kill it quickly. Yes, there are rooms in rushes that take 5 seconds. But what about a room like 10stats that takes a single player around 30-40 seconds to complete? That's a lot of time taking mage hits if you're not killing them.

Let's look at it another way.

Let's say for example that each mage will get 4 attacks off on average before you kill it. Wouldn't you want an item that reduces the chance of getting weakened or bound by mages by 25%? I know I would.

17-Jan-2013 20:16:35

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Yeah if you aren't comfortable with using hood as your only defensive bind then by all means go with armor. Won't make a whole lot of difference either way.

I just say dg with whatever binds make you happy!

17-Jan-2013 23:53:24

Sereg

Sereg

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This is fairly obvious to me, and I don't even play anymore - the hood has been re-allowed as an offensive bind, not as a defensive one.

When combined with armor, the offensive bonus is negated, the defence does not stack additively, and you're down a bind.

Yes, you can force a mage to waste an action - is that really worth a full 20% of your allowed binds? Especially considering the counterproductivity of using a hood and armor together?

Edited: offensive penalty -> bonus
Carve our dreams in sanguine stone/Strength corporeal and of mind
Walls of our flesh, bricks of our bone/Deadly intent to defend our kind

18-Jan-2013 02:23:23 - Last edited on 18-Jan-2013 16:13:21 by Sereg

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"When combined with armor, the offensive penalty is negated, the defence does not stack additively, and you're down a bind."

This is a bit of a confusing statement. Since you are talking about hood, I'm confused because there is no "offensive penalty" being negated anywhere - or did you mean the lack of offensive penalty. Hood has no offensive penalties, so I must assume you are referring to armour.

As already stated, when using your alternate attack style on monsters where having a bit of extra accuracy will actually result in a significant DPS increase (the only one coming to mind being a boss like Runebound where you must switch attack styles), simply remove your armour whilst keeping the hood equipped.

Defence stacking is irrelevant, and I quite honestly am not even sure what you mean here.

There is no advantage that you will gain by replacing hood or plate with another bind. Once you have 2h/hex/blood necklace, you're best off with defensive binds because that's as good as your DPS is going to get.

I'm quite open to suggestions if you can think of something I haven't already thought about and tested.

Also I would never call hood an offensive bind. It's just a more versatile defensive bind than the others. A utility bind, maybe. But **t an offensive bind lol. It does nothing to directly increase your DPS.

18-Jan-2013 05:13:39

Divi
Jul Member 2022

Divi

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There is a typo in there. To clarify what I said.

"When combined with armor, the offensive penalty is negated, the defence does not stack additively, and you're down a bind"

What I was meaning was that the hood offers no offensive stats at all. Armor only gives least accuracy reduction. The hoods one and only benefit comes from the fact that it is typeless and it therefore does not negatively impact any combat styles accuracy. It is literally the same as wearing no armor. The difference is that the hood offers some defense. Though now you could argue given the exponential scale of armor defense values, the hood provides negligible defense.

Getting slightly sidetracked, but my whole point to this is that when you tack on any kind of armor that is used in conjunction with the hood, your accuracy would still be bad, and still be the exact same as if you just had the body armor on. Because the hood doesn't give you any offensive accuracy. The body armor only gives you a loss of accuracy.

The defensive aspect of its use is negligible compared to the stats of any t11 helms or legs now that the armor has been changed. That means that anyone using the hood with armor would have to be using it for the purposes of its concealing effect which is rather pointless in KABDE's.

EDIT: It's 5am. I'm tired. I just now realized that was directed to Sereg and the quote wasn't even something I said. Still leaving the post up though since I already wrote it.

18-Jan-2013 09:52:59 - Last edited on 18-Jan-2013 09:55:51 by Divi

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Yes that's why you use them in conjunction.

You get the utility of the hood with the defensive value of the platebody. Accuracy is not an argument since you can remove your platebody while using your other style to achieve the same effect.

"The hoods one and only benefit"

This was the most worrying part of your post for me, because the following had nothing to do with forcing mages to deactivate your hood. That is the benefit, not the accuracy. You can achieve the same amount of accuracy with or without hood by simply removing your plate or swapping it for a different item.

It's always a good display of game mechanics when people start referring to the lack of a penalty as an advantage. And I don't mean just you, it seems almost everyone has been doing this lately.

If you'd like to suggest items you think would be better than a hood, I'd love to hear them so we can have a discussion about it.

18-Jan-2013 12:33:24

Sereg

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Edited: Offensive bonus, not penalty.

Now, as far as I know, the hood doesn't give an actual boost to combat - however, it lacks the penalty every other armor apparently has.

As such, it's allowed for offensive minded players trying to use multiple styles effectively. Its intended purpose(per the rules of dg4fun, at least) is offensive, not defensive.

By using it in conjunction with body armor, you re-gain that penalty you were trying to avoid. You're also using up two binds defensively, but you're doing it simultaneously, rather then swapping between lack of penalty for attack styles, like you'd do with two different body armors. So now you've got two binds tied up defensively that don't really stack and sort of offset each others' advantages and only one combat style usable without penalty.

This is the opposite of what the hood was re-allowed for.
Carve our dreams in sanguine stone/Strength corporeal and of mind
Walls of our flesh, bricks of our bone/Deadly intent to defend our kind

18-Jan-2013 16:18:51

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"By using it in conjunction with body armor, you re-gain that penalty you were trying to avoid."

... And then we remove the penalty by taking off our platebodies while using our alternate attack style.

You are left with the functionality of having two body armors bound while retaining the utility that a hood presents, due to this fact.

One body armor bind provides exactly the same effectiveness as two due to the ability to simply remove (as opposed to replace) your body armor when using your alternate attack style. This is as clear as I can make this. There is absolutely no advantage to having two traditional defensive binds as opposed to only one.

Having a hood and platebody does not diminish a hood's usefulness (nor does it diminish the plate's usefulness), because a hood's usefulness ONLY comes from it's ability to prevent mages from using weakening/binding spells for a portion of the time.

You're focusing far too much on the offensive/defensive factors and not enough on the utility of the hood.

There are only three optimal offensive binds in dg. This leaves 120 dgers with two extra binds. These binds HAVE to be defensive, since there are no other good offensive options.

You can either have one useful bind and one redundant bind (such as two bodies), or two useful binds.

I'll take two useful binds.

18-Jan-2013 17:06:29

Dster0
Jul Member 2005

Dster0

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So Divi is Sereg or Sereg is Divi... :O

Anyways, I think it's not very useful to remove a body without replacing it with a different one. The reason for this is that you are in your inventory to equip your weapon therefore you can very quickly and easily click on your other body at the same time. If you do not replace it with another body then you have to switch to your armor tab and unequip it from there. Also, you lose the chunk of life points the armor gives you if you remove it instead of replacing it along with the defense bonuses. Just some reasons why I like two tops instead of just one. I know it's not that big of a deal but it is annoying enough to me that I would not take my body off if I only had one. I'd just leave it on.

I think it's important to consider what an item does not do when evaluating it. This allows you to compare it to other items better. If you only look at the things it does give you then you are missing a part of the picture. For example, the hood does not give you negative accuracy penalties. A plate does. That is somewhat relevant to comparing the two. You can choose not to take this into consideration, but I think that is not looking at the whole picture.

It's also important to consider the setup as a whole. Right now most people have this setup: hex, 2h****, top. If we allowed hoods with armor binds then I assure you people will have this set up: 2h, hex, hood, top. I doubt many people would have: 2h, hex****, hood (which is currently allowed and which I have yet to see in practice because it means dying a lot before 120). Therefore the hood will be replacing an offensive bind with a defensive one. Again, I am assuming the level 100-119 dungeoneerer here because that is our base and most common level. I know some people currently have: 2h, hex, top, bottom but I think it's not that common. Just something to keep in mind.


Edit: **** means bn

18-Jan-2013 19:36:18 - Last edited on 18-Jan-2013 19:37:04 by Dster0

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