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You are absolutely correct to say that removing your platebody would cause you to lose lifepoints and have less defence. It shouldn't however, cause you to die, and eating salve eels is pretty much lossless now during combat. Swapping body armor (assuming you would otherwise remove) offers zero advantages in the interest of efficiency. Preference, perhaps, but certainly not efficiency. I don't see why we should limit the cap on efficiency because there are people who would rather approach it differently.

"For example, the hood does not give you negative accuracy penalties. A plate does. That is somewhat relevant to comparing the two. You can choose not to take this into consideration, but I think that is not looking at the whole picture."

When the player has the ability to mitigate said penalty by simply performing a few extra actions, it is no longer relevant. I don't think laziness/ease of doing so is not really a valid argument assuming it doesn't require some ridiculous feat of skill (which, in this case, it doesn't).

Assuming you are playing in the interest of efficiency, when you are swapping styles you will be going to your worn items anyways to quickswitch your ring. This is the perfect time to remove your platebody, and requires very little extra effort. You still have a hood backing you up as a defensive bind assuming the room is void of monsters capable of dehooding.

As for players who are not yet 120 - it's good to consider these people, but for something that makes as little as ~5% difference in your dps (blood necklace) over a hood, I don't think that is a big enough deal to stop them from using hoods if that's what they are inclined to do. And what about people who do not yet have blood necklaces? Somebody swapping to a hood in their binds simply tells me that they enjoy dungeoneering that way more than with a bn, so more power to them for being able to do what they want.

18-Jan-2013 20:51:34

Dster0
Jul Member 2005

Dster0

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Our philosophy is that everyone should be up to a certain level of efficiency. Beyond that is a personal decision, but we do not want people under that imaginary line. The reason is that most of the time things don't go very well when you mix people from opposite ends of the spectrum. For example, I will be very unhappy constantly doing dg4fun floors with someone who who kills half the monsters I do because their setup is not very effective. It makes me feel like I'm doing most of the work and they are just freeloading. The person with the fun but inefficient set up might not like flooring with me since I make it feel too rushy. On the other hand, both could be perfectly fine having fun by themselves.

With that in mind, we're not about 100% efficiency and we're not about do whatever you want so long as it makes you feel happy inside.

Maybe we should let the hood back because it doesn't make a big difference either way so people should do what they like. It bugs me that those without hoods will be punished if the majority take up hoods again. It kind of seems like going backwards. Maybe that's what EOC has made it be though. I don't know :( .

18-Jan-2013 22:30:59

Wewe112

Wewe112

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Just a quick thought, ive been tribriding with a hood and blood neck lately and ive actually found that i die less. This is because when im tribriding with a plate bound, i usually have the plate off, because i mage and range combined, more then i melee.

About the hood+plate binds, i can understand what tims saying when we could just remove the plate, but, most people in dg4fun wont remove it and a lot of the time with 2 or 3 people piling the mage, its useless to remove the plate anyway. Also, atleast 50% of the things well be ranging will remove the concealment effect (forgotten mages, necros and reborn mages vs. mage skeles demons, books and the odd seeker). So for people who dont want to die, they will be ranging with a plate on atleast 50% of the time.

I think that if your not going to tribrid, like Dster is saying, its better to just have 2 bodies bound, since you will have protection + no negative accuracy 100% of the time.

18-Jan-2013 22:51:16

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Wewe just a quick question, do you realize that (unless Jagex very recently changed mage in dg a considerable amount) tribridding is actually hurting your DPS rather than helping it? Hybridding melee/ranged is currently the way to go.



"most people in dg4fun wont remove it"

If they won't click to remove their plate, why would they bother to swap to another body? How do we know they'd even bother switching attack styles if they won't click once or twice more to remove their plate?

I don't really think that a reason for not allowing arguably the most efficient bind setup in dg at the moment should be "most people won't use the bind setup correctly".



"So for people who dont want to die, they will be ranging with a plate on atleast 50% of the time. "

This statement strongly conflicts with your opener, saying that you've been dying even less with only hood as a defensive bind.

So what are you saying here? I'm a bit confused and hope you can clarify.



"I think that if your not going to tribrid, like Dster is saying, its better to just have 2 bodies bound, since you will have protection + no negative accuracy 100% of the time."

Just because some people can be lazy/not care about removing armor doesn't mean a bind setup should not be allowed. For those who do care enough, there is still no negative accuracy - for those who don't, they probably aren't bothering to swap body armor anyways. And for the kill or two during which the plate is removed, no armor will do just fine. The extra protection isn't needed 99% of the time, and if it would be needed in a specific instance there are always salve eels. Unless they changed it recently, salve eels do not interrupt combat nor do they drop your adrenaline.

18-Jan-2013 23:45:52

Wewe112

Wewe112

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The first paragraph and the rest of it wasn't supposed to have anything to do with each other, sry for that confusion :p

All i meant with that 50% thing is that around 50% of the monsters we range in dg, will remove the hood effect, so removing the plate would leave us open to attacks. This would cause people to keep the plate on and range with the negative accuracy. With a range body instead of a hood, we can always have defense, without the negative accuracy, even when fighting in those rooms with mages that deactivate the hood.

You also pointed out that if people won't switch tabs to remove a plate, then why would they swap bodies. That is a valid point, but you can't deny that clicking a bow and then a body in the inv, is alot easier and faster then switching tabs to remove a plate. Dster made that same point.

Honestly though, a lot of the points you made really do make sense, so im not really sure if either way is any better than the other, like you said, it just comes down to preference :P

19-Jan-2013 04:10:34

Divi
Jul Member 2022

Divi

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Idea of the day: If you wear a hood you have to activate Incite. You would not be piled by other enemies, but the enemy you are attacking would most likely shift its attention to you, helping disperse party damage.

Side note: I do not believe that the hoods ability to steal a single magic attack from a single mage, in the occasional room, is remotely noticeable.

Edit: Not saying my idea should be a rule. I was just thinking it could somehow be incorporated with the hoods usage. Maybe as a courtesy type thing.

19-Jan-2013 07:34:45 - Last edited on 19-Jan-2013 07:36:42 by Divi

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"That is a valid point, but you can't deny that clicking a bow and then a body in the inv, is alot easier and faster then switching tabs to remove a plate."

F-keys. People used to make the same argument for having protect mage as their quick prayer instead of turm+ss. It's exactly the same speed if you're utilizing F-keys, and as stated people should be going to their equipment tab to switch their ring anyways.

@Div, as I use hood in all non-dg4fun floors, I would say it's actually quite noticeable given the giant eyeball thing that appears above a mages head when they dehood. Every time that happens, you know that a potential bind/weaken is stopped (and it gives you a good opportunity to use anticipation assuming you're not currently in a position to attack anything).

Regardless of how noticeable it is, if we know that:

- There is at least some benefit
- There aren't really any better binds to replace it
- It's not making a huge difference either way

I can't really see why it isn't allowed. The specifics aren't even important.

Div I think you will find that pathing with hooded players is not as taxing nowadays. People solo pathing so much in our floors is a testament to this. Doing so is basically like pathing with four hooded players who deal no damage all the time anyways! People are managing just fine, and nobody has complained yet in any of my floors if I ask them to clear a room or path by themselves.

If you're pathing with a hooded player and you run into a mage, be thankful that there is no virtually no chance of you getting bound or weakened.

Hood doesn't just benefit the person wearing it. It also benefits anybody they are pathing with. Yeah, you may take a little more damage than normal if there's nothing to dehood them, but that doesn't **** to be an issue nowadays.

Nobody's getting clocked for 1/3+ of their hp by primal warriors or ripped by t11 rangers anymore. Things have changed.

19-Jan-2013 12:47:41

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Anyways yeah, I've typed waaaaaaaay more than I ever planned about this. I think I'm done talking about it for a while lol.

Wewe hit the nail on the head... It's all just personal preference in this case because I think we can all agree that it's not the biggest deal.

19-Jan-2013 13:02:04

Divi
Jul Member 2022

Divi

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The stats of the gpb are as follows

Class: Ranged
Damage: 20
Accuracy: -
Style: -
Armor rating: 225
Life bonus: +135
Prayer bonus: 0
Critical bonus: 0.4% ranged

According to Rs wiki since I haven't had one bound in ages.

19-Jan-2013 18:45:54

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