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Dster0
Jul Member 2005

Dster0

Posts: 1,684 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
That's understandable, Kio. I'll admit that we are moving away from that super relaxed style. We don't want to be super efficient, but we do want to be a bit more organized and consistent than the original dg4fun.

Some people like to be lazy and if we leave them that opportunity to do so they will let others do most of the work in the floors. That bugs some people, and others are fine with it. Then there are those who try as hard as they can, but are a little slower than most. We want to keep being a fun place for those people too. It's a fine line to walk.

15-Jan-2013 18:30:26

Evertim

Evertim

Posts: 1,649 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'd just like to say that for the record, I don't really care if anyone in the fc does things inefficiently. Like, it wouldn't particularly bother me to floor with people who only used one attack style or used momentum. That's part of the reason I prefer to not volunteer advice, I think most people in the fc don't really want any - another is, where do I stop giving advice? I could probably list at least between 5-10 things PER ROOM that the average dg4fun member should be doing differently in the interest of efficiency, but I don't because it doesn't bother me. As long as I know I'm able to dungeoneer in the way that I want to (which happens to be efficiently - that's just what makes most things on rs fun for me), I don't really care how the others are approaching it.

Things like hood - are we sure anyone would even complain now if people were sporting hood+platebody combos? Per-eoc, sure. But now? We might be looking to prevent something that we don't need to be preventing, and are coming up with redundant rules that chip away at that feeling of acceptance while not necessarily doing us any good.

Tori raised some good points I think.

It is my opinion that as soon as EoC dropped we should have just said "anything goes". Start with a fresh slate and dismiss your preconceived notions about how dungeoneering works. Start with everything allowed and only make rules about things that present serious issues. That's just how I would have approached it, although it's understandable why things have happened the way they have up until now. That said, the generals have done a fantastic job handling all the curveballs Jagex keeps throwing.

15-Jan-2013 18:39:40

Evertim

Evertim

Posts: 1,649 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Also can there be Keyer applications again? The Keyers can still be self-selecting and all but I don't see a reason for removing the ability to apply to be one. It just means we don't know who is interested - we can still deny anyone who is unfit to be one.

I think the applications are mistakenly associated too closely with the ease of becoming one a while back.

15-Jan-2013 18:45:03

Dster0
Jul Member 2005

Dster0

Posts: 1,684 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Actually, you missed it, but we did start with a completely clean slate when EOC came out. We said anything goes so long as it's KABDE. You do not know how many complaints we got in just that week or two. People wanted a set style and very much disliked how each floor was completely different depending on who was keying or who was in it. We allowed momentum, one style, going blindfolded, anything. Then after some time evaluating we came up with what we thought were the best practices. That's why we do not have so much skilling now. People found it was unneeded. Same with the altar.

The hood thing was a mistake. We banned it based on how it functioned before EOC, but I can't really think of anything else we took that approach to.

The keyer application was taken away because there was a very strong perceived correlation between applying and become a ranked keyer. We wanted to redo that rank to not be so auto-accepting, so we took away the thing people were using to gain this rank before. It might be time to bring back a list of applicants since people seem unwilling to just ask a keyer what they need to improve to become one.

15-Jan-2013 20:37:30

Thok
Feb Member 2011

Thok

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I think the problem with the lotto is that people know in general how it works but don't necessarily know the mechanics of how to compute the answer. I will try to explain the steps without explanation

Priority order (1 is greatest).

1) 99 slay no hex
2) sub 99 slay no hex
3) has hex
4) does not want hex

How to work out how gets the drop :

If n people have same priority then compute sum of the combat levels of the monsters in a random room. Divide the result by n. If this is not an integer than remove the extra digits to make it an integer and call it k. Compute x = [ sum of monsters -( k x n) ].

Rank the players 0 to n from top to bottom in party details ignoring players on lower priority. Player x will receive the drop.

note:
1. Empty room does not count as 0, find new room
2. Do not include mastyx in calculation

(the drop goes to the xth player where x is the result of the sum of the combat levels of the monsters reduced modulo n).

15-Jan-2013 20:43:55 - Last edited on 15-Jan-2013 20:54:39 by Thok

Divi
Jul Member 2022

Divi

Posts: 1,392 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
"I just felt that there were too many rules and restrictions. You have to do this, cant do that, but have this bound, cant have that bound, etc."

"Its that accepting feeling thats been lost for me, rather than 1 specific rule that has ruined everything."

Skilling in floors use to be fun. It use to be useful. But now I doubt you would notice any benefit from having full prom armor, and full range armor as opposed to just a primal plate and a sag top. Doubly so now that jagex has scaled armor on a exponential scale. If anyone has noticed, t11 armor has nearly double the defense stats of t10.

When EOC came out we did have a free for all basically. We weren't sure what things we needed to change, and what things we didn't. We were surprised that making altars at bases was completely dropped from floors. We made no rule on it, that was the direction the group took with it. We noticed that several floors weren't being completed because no one was assigning a farmer role for door pots. So we made a rule for that. You have to assign someone to Potion Master before or at the start of the floor. No one overloads before a floor anymore. We took that plus the smaller importance herblore plays in EOC and dropped making floor or boss pots from the Potion Master role.

We try not to be strict on binds. The only requirements are to use 2 combat styles with reasonable efficiency, and to not wear a hood while wearing armor. The only real requirement is that you use the best weapon of the style available to you. With EOC there is literally no leeway anymore in whats best. We so far have only had to tell people to bind a 2nd style for the most part. It basically goes all the way back to the surgebox or hex + arrows. The only times I have had to tell people to bind a different weapon are people using Sag longbows. The damage of the shortbow is like twice that of the longbow. I don't think its unreasonable to request that. Not 2 months ago you wouldn't have had the option of either.

16-Jan-2013 21:22:55

Evertim

Evertim

Posts: 1,649 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
That's true, but at the same time 2 months ago something like ranging in dg without a hex wasn't really something most people found fun :p

There is a much bigger appeal to using only one style now than their was before. It's fun to stock up on defensive binds and be really tanky, but that pretty much requires one style. It wasn't really any fun to do that pre-eoc.

The problem now is that more tactics in dungeoneering are fun than was the case before. So when you restrict the use of one style, you restrict the fun that can come from that, and that's what I think is most upsetting to people who want to specialize in something specific.

16-Jan-2013 21:38:24

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