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Clan Plan 2015 Thread is locked

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Mod Matthe

Mod Matthe

Jagex Moderator Forum Profile Posts by user
Lisaa said :
They need to hire 5 or so new Jmods, move them into old staff positions, and have the 5 experienced staff members focus 100% of their attention on clans.

I think what we really need are....

-Community person (MattHe)
-Graphical design (1-2 people)
-Coding people (2-3 people, Maz being one of them)

Major projects that should be a priority:
-Complete Permissions Rework
-Coding revamp of the clans system right down to the center so changes can actually be made.


A Scrum Team normally will have a Product Owner, 1 or more designers, 2 or more developers, 2 or more graphical artists, plus QAers. Clans would in fact require a veritable army of QA in the team because of the nature of content that requires testing. One of those team members would also have to serve as Scrum master. It would be unusual to fold a CM into the team, though not unheard of.
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28-Oct-2015 16:26:08

Scret
Mar Member 2018

Scret

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"A football team analogy does not really work sadly as there are only 11 players allowed on the pitch at a time and specific functions that have to be filled, no matter the game. Squad rotation for a defensive or offensive strategy works better, but there is not a game developer out there who can afford their devs to spend over half their working time sitting on a subs bench, twiddling their thumbs. :) "

But wouldnt really need to be specifically work the way it does if other business practices were changed to suit the needs of what i think should be happening which is more detailed work on projects and less of them with a team who is 100% knowledgeable on it.

Its been clear to me for a very long time Jagex are very good at biting off more than they can chew which leaves updates needing to be rushed to meet deadlines and never really receiving any attention to the changes and fixes needed to be made to said update often having to force other staff to abandon what they are doing.

This is why there is so much broken and unused content in the game, i would sooner see a lot less updates and actually have some quality and instant fixes to to some of the releases.

This for me was the problem with clans in the first place, it was a big project and i sensed looking back at it it was rushed for a deadline date thus the reasons we have so much to fix i think having a number of empty plots in the citadel reflects this theory.

I dont find moving people around all the time when work needs to be done on something and all this chopping and changing of projects, having hundreds on the go at once continuously abandoning one thing for the other to be very good business practice and a waste of resources.

At the point that a person has nothing to do THEN it can be good to move them on to assist in other areas then no need for thumb twiddling on the bench.

The point of the anology was to keep people in areas they now best instead of trying to make everyone versatile.
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28-Oct-2015 17:02:14

Mod Matthe

Mod Matthe

Jagex Moderator Forum Profile Posts by user
Scret said :

This for me was the problem with clans in the first place, it was a big project and i sensed looking back at it it was rushed for a deadline date thus the reasons we have so much to fix i think having a number of empty plots in the citadel reflects this theory.


This is an example of where there are some serious misconceptions - empty plots are there so people can move their plots around with freedom, not for additional plots. There were no plans for additional plots. The Citadel is built as it is tier and plots wise by design.
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29-Oct-2015 08:22:41

Zyphix
Sep Member 2010

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Scret said :

Its been clear to me for a very long time Jagex are very good at biting off more than they can chew which leaves updates needing to be rushed to meet deadlines and never really receiving any attention to the changes and fixes needed to be made to said update often having to force other staff to abandon what they are doing.

This is why there is so much broken and unused content in the game, i would sooner see a lot less updates and actually have some quality and instant fixes to to some of the releases.

I dont find moving people around all the time when work needs to be done on something and all this chopping and changing of projects, having hundreds on the go at once continuously abandoning one thing for the other to be very good business practice and a waste of resources.

At the point that a person has nothing to do THEN it can be good to move them on to assist in other areas then no need for thumb twiddling on the bench.

Yeah - that. Much more eloquently put than I was trying to do. Thanks.
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29-Oct-2015 09:45:25

Mod Matthe

Mod Matthe

Jagex Moderator Forum Profile Posts by user
Scret
- Software development processes are complicated things and are dependent on a huge number of factors as to which an individual title needs to use.

The wikipedai article here is worth a read through as are the articles that come from that page. We utilise Scrum, an AGILE methodology.
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29-Oct-2015 10:48:05

Scret
Mar Member 2018

Scret

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It was interesting to read about Scrum but overcomplicated software development processes aside i would say its very easy to identify the real needs of a game if the owners knew anything about the product they are buying/selling.

People like to over think and overcomplicate everything and more often than not makes things worse, i can find a million examples of this both in and out of business.

Breaking it down to its simplest and most recognisable form I can even use clans as an example of this were we have some systems/features that are just needlessly complicated than needed to be, which i have brought up a lot over the years.

At the end of the day though it all comes down to what's most profitable over what makes a better game and im not just saying this because i like to spend my time going around screaming Jagex are money hungry all the time but because i generally have seen decisions that have negatively impacted the game all for the sake of extra revenue.
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29-Oct-2015 15:26:52 - Last edited on 29-Oct-2015 15:35:05 by Scret

Mod Matthe

Mod Matthe

Jagex Moderator Forum Profile Posts by user
Scret said :
It was interesting to read about Scrum but overcomplicated software development processes aside i would say its very easy to identify the real needs of a game if the owners knew anything about the product they are buying/selling.

People like to over think and overcomplicate everything and more often than not makes things worse, i can find a million examples of this both in and out of business.

Breaking it down to its simplest and most recognisable form I can even use clans as an example of this were we have some systems/features that are just needlessly complicated than needed to be, which i have brought up a lot over the years.

At the end of the day though it all comes down to what's most profitable over what makes a better game and im not just saying this because i like to spend my time going around screaming Jagex are money hungry all the time but because i generally have seen decisions that have negatively impacted the game all for the sake of extra revenue.


Scrum is very definitely not an "overcomplicated software development" process - rather it hugely removes risk from the development process and increases productivity. It is perfect but no system will ever be. That might sound like business speak, and it is, but essentially what that means for our players is more content, better produced and less likely to cause problems further down the line. It should also mean less things get abandoned than might have been before.

One person's "needless complexity" is another's "need to allow for X problem, Y edge case and because of how Z handles W data" - it would be unusual to add complexity for complexities sake. That and that the perception what is "really needed" by the game is incredibly subjective and ask 100 players and you'll get 200 answers or more. Metrics, game data and player behaviour analysis is often a much better measure of hot and cold spots in game and how best to support the game in the future, than loud shouting by some vocal groups. That does not mean that we don't listen to players, but sometimes the evidence suggests there is far more at play than perhaps some players might realise.
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29-Oct-2015 16:56:02

Zyphix
Sep Member 2010

Zyphix

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Mod Matthe said :
That does not mean that we don't listen to players, but sometimes the evidence suggests there is far more at play than perhaps some players might realise.

It might help the community better understand JAGeX logic to be clued into that information. I don't think people ever really want to complain to complain, but try to understand what they can't.

That being said, why were clans largely skipped over this year? What took most development, and why was it felt important?
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30-Oct-2015 05:09:53

L0NE DRUID
Jan Member 2011

L0NE DRUID

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Zyphix said :
Mod Matthe said :
That does not mean that we don't listen to players, but sometimes the evidence suggests there is far more at play than perhaps some players might realise.

It might help the community better understand JAGeX logic to be clued into that information. I don't think people ever really want to complain to complain, but try to understand what they can't.

That being said, why were clans largely skipped over this year? What took most development, and why was it felt important?


Hey there,

Not sure if you have been following the "2016 and clans" thread but the question you have been asking has already been answered from a players point of view on the thread. My understanding of why Jagex did not/could not work on these clan updates can be found here.

L0NE DRUID said :




There were some good points made by Gluepot on the same thread further down the page here.

Gluepot said :




And another interesting post by RANNY further below.

Shamk said :




Im guessing Mod Matthe could give you a more elaborate answer but I think us Clan Leaders have done fairly well when it comes to explaining to other Clan Leaders why we haven't had much of a "Clan Year" this time around. Thought I would cut in there otherwise we would be carrying similar conversations over two threads. You can take a look at the thread, see what you think.

To be fair, we have already established that 2015 was a bad year and we didn't get everything that we wanted. However how can we work to make 2016 better? That is the bigger question and one that we should all be discussing.

We can all discuss the past however the future should also be discussed, because at the end of the day we really need to put our heads together for 2016 and not whine about Jagex all day every day.

Thanks
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30-Oct-2015 23:24:09 - Last edited on 30-Oct-2015 23:33:05 by L0NE DRUID

L0NE DRUID
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L0NE DRUID

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Scret said :


At the end of the day though it all comes down to what's most profitable over what makes a better game and im not just saying this because i like to spend my time going around screaming Jagex are money hungry all the time but because i generally have seen decisions that have negatively impacted the game all for the sake of extra revenue.



Hey there,

No offense man but seriously you say that you don't spend your time "going around screaming Jagex are money hungry all the time" but its pretty much all you seem to be doing off late.

I am not sure how many other MMORPG communities you have been part of but seriously since you have been playing from 2005 (maybe even longer) similar to I have you should already see the changes that Jagex have gone through over the past years.

Rome wasn't built in a day and I can tell you that there are other games out there that couldn't give a rats ass about their community (Wont name) but seriously Jagex is far more entwined with their community then many of the other games developers.

Maybe its because they are an independent games company or because they were very much started in two blokes garages, but if you are calling Jagex money grabbing then you really need to explore the dark side of games development.

There are so many things that Jagex does to let the players into the world of Jagex and a lot of what they do is out in the open and it's because of this they can be subject to more ridicule then other gaming companies.

In other companies that work for bigger "profits" even their employees won't know the things that go on in other departments let alone the players.

We know that there are some things that Jagex can improve on and feedback is always a gift, however by being a broken tape recorder and going round and round on the same types of conversations isn't really helping anyone and if this was any other company they probably wouldn't even reply to you.
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30-Oct-2015 23:45:29

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