RuneScape Forum Archive | Skill Training Methods

Seasons Past

Posts: 559 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Something else to consider is how xp and profit from abyssal Runecrafting would be affected by F2P constraints:
-F2P can't use any essence storage except the backpack, so they're limited to 28 essence per run (or potentially 30 with the small pouch reward from Enter the Abyss)
-They can't use bonus xp or the demonic skull
-They also can't use the Wilderness sword or amulet of glory for teleporting to Edgeville

With chaos becoming the highest rune available, this would work out to a maximum of 8.5 x 30 x 2.5 = 637.5 xp per Abyss run. That's on par with and probably still below what F2P can get from the Runespan in the same amount of time, and chaos runes aren't profitable. If one were to make water runes, it would be 6 x 30 x 2.5 = 450 base xp per run. However, using the Abyss to make water runes on F2P would compromise profit, as it would likely be faster to run from Lumbridge to the water ruins and teleport back.

Under these conditions, F2P would have a choice between:
-Standard altar running (low xp, relatively high gp if making water runes)
-Abyss (moderate xp and gp if making water runes)
-Runespan (high xp with no profit)

The Abyss would thus fill the gap between the two extremes of either gp or xp. Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

13-Sep-2023 13:25:26

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Yeah it's certainly not as OP or abuseable as it might seem on a first glace. Could potentially open up a few new cans of worms (i.e. why wouldn't free players be able to utilize medium/large pouches, when the latter could be used at level 50 anyway), but I certainly think it's not as bad as it might seem at first.

When it comes to water runecrafting - the shatted worlds bank is locked to p2p only, right? I can recall some players freaked out due to it being OP when that minigame was released back in the day.

Btw for reference - the runespan hasn't actually replaced regular altar running when it was introduced. The 200m aspirants at that time rather have farmed effigies, since even with those inconsistent drop rates players were outright able to shatter whatever altar/abyss running was able to offer in the long run. Runecrafting really is a bit special... Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

20-Sep-2023 08:16:47 - Last edited on 20-Sep-2023 08:20:42 by Rikornak

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

As for hunter, I extremely like what OS is proposing with their revamp of that skill:

https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/a=100/c=UrKrUtsvvzA/the-hunter-guild---varlamore?oldschool=1

Obviously they do not touch anything in terms of mechanics once again (which is imho the reason why their woodcutting revamp with forestry was basically an utter failure - especially in direct comparison to what RS3 did roughly at the same time), but this time they do want to make the actual loot more rewarding. The new things are a bit of a mixed bag, but I do like that they want to upgrade certain existing things - namely butterflies (of course still quite niche), meat (as an alternative to fish - why can't we have something like that?) and fur. That mostly are things, that do exist right now - just without any purpose.

Those things partially are actually even viable as a training method right now, most players just do not bother doing it, since the loot is basically worthless. If those porposals survive the poll I could imagine, they'll get their 'do bird houses ad infinitium and do not bother with a lot of the other things existing' meta broken up. Of course OS being OS I could imagine, that either the community or Jagex will get it watered down to irrelevancy (some things already were broken due to PKing still existing after all). But as it currently stands - it sounds nice.

But all in all - I wish Jagex would review a lot of old activties for their purpose. Hunter has a good level flow by now, so they obviously don't need to become meta methods by xp - but just good enough for players to ask - 'why would I hunt X?' Obviously for OS it's easier when it comes to introducing yet another niche in a niche equipment, but I certainly could see reward space in here as well. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

20-Sep-2023 08:20:33 - Last edited on 20-Sep-2023 08:29:21 by Rikornak

Seasons Past

Posts: 559 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I wouldn't oppose making the medium and large pouches F2P along with the Abyss, as the abyssal denizens drop them. While that would bring F2P xp rates up dramatically, they still wouldn't have access to the ethereal set, familiars, and an optimal teleport. The giant pouch should probably stay P2P due its fairly high level requirement.

The Shattered Worlds bank might have briefly been F2P on release before being changed due to that concern of being too close to the water ruins. I've always been blocked from using it on free worlds.

I didn't know people farmed effigies for Runecrafting after the Runespan was released. I'm not even sure what to make of that. It kind of seems like if you already have 200M in every other skill, then I guess why not?

I need to read the OS Hunter content in depth when I get a chance. Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

21-Sep-2023 02:19:46

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

And you've got access to the runecrafting guild in which members could outright buy the pouches (and small and medium are even free of charge). While discontinued by now I think free players were able to use ethereal set pieces they've previously obtained (older advent calendars, TH). If access wasn't restricted meanwhile I also do think you could right now get the pieces via the vic you're able to buy with bonds.

Effigies were released two years before the runespan - and those were things, which shattered altar running at least for the high levelled community. Taking OS as a reference the skill currently caps out at 110k xp/h creating lava runes with magic imbue. Back then in RS2 it will have been quite a bit lower, since they haven't had a singular pouch, which is able to store another 40 essences (39 if you consider the slot for it), a rune pouch able to store the runes required for the imbue spell and a ring that needs way fewer recharges than the duel one and gets you even closer to the altar at the same time. And I wouldn't be astonished if they're playing more optimized than back in 2010.

Of course effigies need at least the ability to boost involved skills into 90s (but you could use the assist system and give those xp to other players), but in here I am exclusively talking about putting the lamp in the end into runecrafting, which already would be worth 36k at 90, 42k at 95 and 48k at 99. The xp the effigy itself spills out is a nice extra, which also could be a runecrafting extra. But yeah that is what I mean with altar running just is extremely bad. Anything could have broken it - and that doesn't make the runespan OP or anything - especially considering the downside just is 'no runes'. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

22-Sep-2023 08:35:57 - Last edited on 22-Sep-2023 08:57:21 by Rikornak

Seasons Past

Posts: 559 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I was just looking into crafting some water runes on a free account yesterday and came to a startling conclusion: F2P can no longer make money from Runecrafting.

The best case scenario is that at level 95 Runecrafting, you could make 156 water runes per inventory of 26 essence, for a total of 156 x 52 = 8112 gross profit if I did my mental math right. This assumes two inventory spaces reserved for Lumbridge teleport runes and does not take the explorer's ring into account. The second best would be 260 air runes per trip at 99, for 260 x 24 = 6240 gp gross profit (assuming Varrock teleport is used). Rune essence would cost 26 x 162 = 4212 gp, leaving the final profit margin under ideal circumstances at less than 4k.

The bleak market prospects for F2P runecrafters negate gold as a factor when considering available training methods, supporting my earlier claim that only the Runespan is viable on F2P. Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

22-Sep-2023 18:48:15

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

That is currently given due to two things both related to necromancy:

1 - You need pure essence in order to create impure essence, both used for necrotic runecrafting and the maximum xp/h ritual. While this has mainly affected pure essence (and hey - for once this thing actually fulfills purpose again), I wouldn't be too astonished, if it had increased the value of regular essence as well, since runecrafters no longer can default to pure essence for runecrafting.
2 - Players previously needed a ton of water runes for the incite fear spell. Since most players obviously currently do rather use necromancy instead of magic, they just need fewer combat runes - dragging down their values obviously.

When they have reworked the older combat styles (I mean they fixed some weird pre-eoc interactions of equipment effects this week and a mod wants to roll out improved tooltips, hit cap, crit mechanics and the damage potential from necromancy to the other styles - which are at least a good start, but obviously not all), players will eventually start using them again on a wider scale, which will cause supplies related to them to rise in value once more. But that's generally given, that most skilling methods rely on supply and demand when it comes to being profitable. If you want the quick buck, I'd rather do something else for now - but otherwise hold onto them for a while. Some dude basically traded his stack of ashes for a blue party hat, since he sold it at the right point. Obviously no longer possible, but things just can become insanely valueable suddenly. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

23-Sep-2023 05:31:46 - Last edited on 23-Sep-2023 06:06:44 by Rikornak

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

But yeah - that's runecrafting in general - blood and soul runes also have insanely tanked recently. Supply and demand. That basically can happen to anything considered profitable (or even the opposite - nobody would ever have imagined that cutting gems could be cost efficient to profitable either.)

For that matter, what I actually think they could do as well to improve f2p runecrafting: Since Fetid Zombies do not require a slayer level and are not actually quest bound I would allow free players to kill them in order to give them access to elemental anima stones. Bound skeletons do not require the quest either, but due to their lock behind 50 slayer, they still shouldn't spawn on f2p worlds, since this would make traversing the area unnecessarily hard. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

23-Sep-2023 05:32:35 - Last edited on 23-Sep-2023 05:34:03 by Rikornak

Seasons Past

Posts: 559 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Rikornak said :
That is currently given due to two things both related to necromancy:

1 - You need pure essence in order to create impure essence, both used for necrotic runecrafting and the maximum xp/h ritual. While this has mainly affected pure essence (and hey - for once this thing actually fulfills purpose again), I wouldn't be too astonished, if it had increased the value of regular essence as well, since runecrafters no longer can default to pure essence for runecrafting.
2 - Players previously needed a ton of water runes for the incite fear spell. Since most players obviously currently do rather use necromancy instead of magic, they just need fewer combat runes - dragging down their values obviously.[...] The value of rune/pure essence has skyrocketed in recent years. I remember pure essence being less than 50 gp only four or five years ago. I logged in a couple of years later and was ecstatic to find that I could sell a stack for at least twice what I paid for it. Had I waited longer, I could have sold it for five times as much.

I wonder if essence should be added to Magic shops just like runes. That might keep the price more stable and in proportion to what you would get when crafting most runes. Much of the reason why it's become so much more expensive is probably that there isn't a reliable and efficient source outside of PvM afaik. Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

24-Sep-2023 05:41:52

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I haven't really followed the rise of rune essence, but that's bascically the two aspects I've mentioned - the introduction of necrotic runecrafting and the introduction of the senntisten spells - most notably aforementioned Incite Fear - which was a bit more than two years ago.

Should Essence be sold in shops. No. Clearly no. At least not in significant numbers.
Has Essence to be fixed in some fashion? Certainly yes.

Let's be honest - the primary source to obtain essence should be the rune essence mine - or at least some kind of mining activity. Considering it's just an extremely poor source for that de facto it's some slayer for members - I do not have an issue that this stuff is getting dropped, but it's as so often, it just outright outclasses the skilling source due to it being poorly designed crap. For instance I killed abyssal demons from 75 to 85 necromancy over the course of a few days. Netted me 20k essences - if I had mined those, it would have taken me much, much, much longer.

I think I can show you two OS concepts again:

https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Pay-to-play_Runecraft_training#Using_Daeyalt_Essence

This is an untradeable essence, you only can obtain while mining in an high levelled mine after a quest, which awards 50 % more xp per essence. OS being OS managed to balance this essence in a way, you'll only achieve 95.something % (which the wiki calculated graciously for us) of the xp rates compared to just buying pure essence - which is dirt cheap in that game - usually something between 1 and 2 gp each. What's interesting though is the mining process itself - you're mining stackable shards 2 or 3 at a time, which you can exchange to an equal number of essences directly sent to your bank. I don't think we need another fancy kind of essence, but the mining process should be rolled over to the essence mine without any further thoughts. If needed increase the amount of essence mined each time. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

24-Sep-2023 06:34:23 - Last edited on 24-Sep-2023 06:57:19 by Rikornak

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