forums.rs

Forums

Battle of Forinthry: Aftermath

Quick find code: 74-75-852-66291656

of 11
H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I don't believe the colors associated with Guthix and Zaros are meant to provide any link between the gods and Necromancy in the slightest.

> Misalionar, the Guthixian mage believed to have become Rasial, very much wasn't a necromancer originally.

> As you said, there is no real association between Necromancy and the Zarosians to speak of.

Rather, the colors used for Necromancy have a functional reasoning. Purple and Teal are used to differentiate the different types of energies used in Necromancy, with purple being necrotic energy and teal being the ectoplasm used in rituals and conjuring spirits.

---

Again, absence of certain Mahjarrat from the Fort Forinthry storyline (Enakhra, Khazard, Hazeel) doesn't indicate that Moia has done anything to them..

---

Erebus is an entirely different plane of existence from Gielinor, only accessible through the Shadow Breaches. There is one located near Senntisten, because notably where the Elder Artifact known as the Codex (the mysterious monolith) is located. The Codex was crafted to plug the Shadow Breach. The other we encounter is on Freneskae, which is another world entirely.

---

I also think we know what the great wars already are too.

> Contestant #1 - the God Wars (Third Age) - Bilrach, writing his Daemonheim chronicles two ages later, knows a fair bit about the Dragonkin and may be associating their arrival upon when someone uses the Stone of Jas as "the ending of wars" here. During the God Wars, the stone was used quite frequently, which would trigger the Kin's curse. It was common for Saradominists, Zamorakians, and others with a lack of knowledge to speculate what event really ended the God Wars, before it became more well known later on that Guthix was responsible.

> Contestant #2 - the Dragonkin Conflicts (Fourth Age) - In the Fourth Age, we see the Necrosyrtes attack humans. This is Bob the Cat and Camorra's time, and it's during this age Vorkath was created.
Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed
- July 31st, 2022

10-Dec-2023 04:22:41

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I went ahead and read all of Bilrach's chronicles over.

> The Dragonkin are only mentioned in passing at the start of Bilrach's descent, as he comments on the castle above the floors.

Now, let's employ deferrence to our Narrator in these chronicles though.

1. Bilrach is a Mahjarrat. Significantly long lifespan in his own right. Would probably refer to "great wars" in the sense that a veteran of such conflicts might.

2. Bilrach fought under three banners after stepping foot on Gielinor. The Menaphites after being brought over from Freneskae by Ichtlarin and Amascut, the Zarosians after Sliske arranged for the Mahjarrat to switch sides in the following conflict between them and the Menaphites, and Zamorak's for a long time frame that stretches from Zamorak's coup to present day - which includes conflicts such as the God Wars and the Dragonkin-Human conflicts of the third and fourth ages respectively.

That leaves a lot of candidates - but because he is talking about Dragonkin, I'm going to posit that the "great wars" Bilrach is talking about are
the God Wars
, which are plural in nature and happen during a time where lots of beings are making use of the Stone of Jas, which we should all know by now is what triggers the Necrosyrtes' arrival and laying waste to everyone and everything around the artifact when they get there. Bilrach is also credited with personally summoning K'ril Tsutsaroth to Gielinor originally - as he mentions still sensing his presence later on whilst tunneling in Daemonheim. (K'ril was trapped in the Temple of Lost Ancients, frozen in time fighting for the Godsword.)

Bilrach may have not been present when in actuality, Guthix was the one who ended the God Wars - and it is decently well known that Guthix's Edicts were not common knowledge immediately in the Fifth Age.
Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed
- July 31st, 2022

10-Dec-2023 05:01:55 - Last edited on 10-Dec-2023 05:04:34 by H 1 L D A

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Now, what that means for the upcoming story? If the God Wars are the great wars he is referring to - those wars have been done to death, so I'm entirely sure what Jagex would bring out of the box this time.

I do want to bring up an interesting Bilrach fact that I came across that DOES tie into Necromancy, weirdly enough though!

---

During the reign of Zaros, Bilrach, along with Lucien, led what is known as the "Hereditas Expedition." This expedition takes place in various areas seemingly, but there is an interestingly strong tie in with Tumeken here that cannot go ignored.

> Firstly, let's make the obvious association. Orcus tasked these Mahjarrat with finding a certain tomb belonging to Rasial, a certain First Necromancer. Afterwards, Orcus became the first apprentice of Rasial. This was one of the tasks associated with the Hereditas Expedition.

> Secondly, the original expedition was to find the remains of Tumeken. Instead, they found a Mahjarrat named Temekel (said to rival Azzanadra in power) who did not switch sides, and an artifact known today as the Kharid-ib. One of the Kharid-ib's properties is to be able to communicate with those who possess it. The other? some casual raising of the dead. In other words, the jewel encountered in the Prince Ali quest has necromantic power.

(Neat little potential future tie-in between the still unfinished Desert storyline, Necromancy, and perhaps the potential future conflict with the Zamorakians. Bilrach is still alive and aware of the Kharid-ib's existence.)
Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed
- July 31st, 2022

10-Dec-2023 05:21:55 - Last edited on 10-Dec-2023 05:24:56 by H 1 L D A

Qwis7
Aug Member 2010

Qwis7

Posts: 1,434 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Original message details are unavailable.
Sorry to say, but could you pls not avoid the question?
Just short and straith answer.


1. Do you also say that xau-tak is not controlling moia?
2. Do you say xau-tak is controlling moia

First or second?

Why do you avoid this?

10-Dec-2023 13:38:13 - Last edited on 10-Dec-2023 13:38:23 by Qwis7

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
"I don't believe the colors associated with Guthix and Zaros are meant to provide any link between the gods and Necromancy in the slightest."


I don't either, but I believe the colors hinted on the civilizations before
Guthix
and
Zaros
. And obviously so, when you brought up Guthix made Rasial the First Necromancer, but do you really think he was the first one one who came up with Necromancy? Remember, we knew Guthix got his powers from the Elder Stone of Jas, and the Elders aren't known to have Necromancy powers. Neither is Guthix's color purple as it is known all the time to be green.

"Again, absence of certain Mahjarrat from the Fort Forinthry storyline (Enakhra, Khazard, Hazeel) doesn't indicate that Moia has done anything to them.."


Exactly my point too! These Mahjarrat are just camoes in some very early RSC quests, they are shown as the weakiest links of the Mahjarrat in their limited appearances. They can't do crap when humans farmers have beaten the crap out of Hazeel and Kazard in RSC. As I mentioned, they are probably in hiding now, and Moia doesn't care about them as Bilrach will be her main distraction on Misthalin for a while.

"I also think we know what the great wars already are too."


No. Apparently you absolutely don't, as Bilrach clearly mentioned the Dragonkin ended the Great Wars. We knew Guthix ended the Gods Wars when the Dragonkin were either hibernating or enslaved by the Stone of Jas. Bilrach also mentioned the Dragonkin Castle and the artifact there which he explicitly emphasized it as It, with a capital "I". The Great Wars were definitely not the God Wars. The Dragonkin definitely weren't the "enders" of the Dragonkin Conflicts neither.

10-Dec-2023 19:13:13

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
An important note here before we continue: During the Fremmenik Saga, we knew when Bilrach wrote the Chronicles, he was becoming more and more insane and out of control when he delved deeper and closer to Floor 61. Whatever he wrote on the Chronicles might most likely not be his own words and knowledge at all.

"During the reign of Zaros, Bilrach, along with Lucien, led what is known as the "Hereditas Expedition." This expedition takes place in various areas seemingly, but there is an interestingly strong tie in with Tumeken here that cannot go ignored."


Sure, I believe Tumeken is an important NPC in the grand picture of Necromancy too, but his untold stories were mostly in the prehistoric era and perhaps the Great Wars too. Note that Tumeken was presumably killed in the 2nd Age Zarosian Wars, there definitely was no indication how he was engaged in the Great Wars the Dragonkin ended IF (just what you think) they meant the 3rd Age God Wars or 4th Age Dragonkin Conflicts.

10-Dec-2023 19:23:46

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'll answer it for you Qwis.

Dilbert believes that Xau-Tak (or something more powerful than the Moia related to Xau-Tak) has controlled Bilrach and Moia's actions for some time now - and he has reason to believe this because of the events of 'til Death Do us Part.

It's not that unheard of, as Xau-Tak is the whitest whale RuneScape horehounds can really chase and Jagex definitely intended to associate the entity with the Mahjarrat in said Halloween event above. It's also incredibly notable that necromancy is heavily associated with Xau-Tak and the realm of Erebus, so there is recent happenings that suggest movement on this front.

In short. Yeah, Moia isn't acting on her own accord, according to Dilbert.

---

As for "Great War" discourse?

1. It's a throwaway line in one chronicle out of like....thirty. Bilrach's chronicles are intended to catalogue his descent into Daemonheim.

2. I'm not sold on the idea that Bilrach slowly went insane. He treats his followers cruelly throughout the entire dig, and the only possible explanation for "insanity" is misinterpreting the voice he hears as Zamorak's. Throughout, he's just kind of a ambitious, cold-hearted general slavedriver type.

3. Bilrach's own history is important when it could come to understanding what makes a War "great." The God Wars were probably Bilrach's finest moments, as he summoned K'ril to Gielinor and was awarded being Zamorak's second-in-command during this time. It doesn't get any "greater" than that.

4. When you talk about "ending" wars, you talk about a large concentrated amount of power that would cause the fighting to cease. Remember when Lucien was slain by the Dragonkin after fighting ensued in that quest? Mahjarrat are supposed be interpreted as powerful beings already, and on top of that he had made use of the Stone.

5. Outside of interpreting Bilrach's words, we already know the Necrosyrtes kill False Users.

It's the God Wars.
Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed
- July 31st, 2022

10-Dec-2023 22:53:29

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
There is no "throwaway", especially when Bilrach emphasized the artifact in the Dragon Castle as It with a capital "I".

You didn't seem to get Bilrach's lore in correct order. When Bilrach was down in the Daemonheim Dungeon, his sanity got lower and lower when he went deeper and closer to the "target" which he though was Zamorak. When Moia found him in the Fremmenik Saga, he was mumbling and talking trash Moia didn't understand (but it was actually quite interesting to the lore which I will connect the dots later).

Bilrach wrote the Chronicles when he was down in the Daemonheim Dungeon.

Then Bilrach recovered his sanity over a very long time before Moia's encounter at Lumbridge, I think it was told in Dishonor's Among Thieves that he has recovered his sanity... until Succession when Moia took it away again.

Bilrach might be Xua-Tak's original commander, but then when Moia came, she became their chosen commander. By Floor 58, all his slaves have lost to CORRUPTION and by floor 60 he felt the DARK ENERGY, most logically suggesting that was Xau-Tak's corruptive black stone powers Bilrach once gained.

Bilrach is just trash, as Zemo called him a Majarrat with average powers. Hr might have become more powerful with his encounter in Daemonheim through Xau-Tak, but he is trash again now as Moia (or Xau-Tak in command) has taken it away.

Moia is definitely not Moia the half Mahjarrat of old at all. The Zamorakians don't respect her at all unfortunately:

"Zemouregal:
You were only able to beat me because I was weakened by that usurper Moia."


https://runescape.wiki/w/Transcript:Battle_of_Forinthry

Zemo, Bilrach et al are just weak slaves and puppets, waiting to be sacrificed in distractions amid the universe ending threat coming up. This is the twilight of the big mouth illusionist Zemo with not much powers left in his tank.

10-Dec-2023 23:28:22 - Last edited on 11-Dec-2023 00:02:56 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
As for Bilrach, he has lost his sanity in Daemonheim when Moia found him. He even acknowledged he had to reach far to hold on to sanity:

"Moia:
And you, Bilrach... What to do with you? What a mess. Time to relinquish this burden. I have a life to live, and now the power to take whatever I wish.
Bilrach regains some sanity

Bilrach:
Fascinating. Tell me: you are part Mahjarrat, are you not? The power of the portals flows in you still. Weak, but flowing nonetheless.
Moia:
What is this? What happened to you? You were stumbling and rambling moments ago.
Bilrach:
He... I have my moments of lucidity. The strain is hard in a place such as this.
I must reach far to hold on to...sanity.
It has been so long. A fascinating device you have there, but you will not need it. I suspect Lucien will not expect you to hear from you again. Not before you plunge your dagger into his chest, at least. I can see that possibility appeals to you."

https://runescape.wiki/w/Transcript:Nadir_(saga)

Well, since "Moia" has taken back the powers they gave Bill, it is unsurprising he is just an insane corrupted puppet now.

11-Dec-2023 00:58:15

Quick find code: 74-75-852-66291656 Back to Top