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Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Roddy Piper said :
Even more on this idea of where they get feedback.

Check out Mod Daze on Twitter. At this moment they are conspiring with their subscribers to ruin Dungeoneering.

It doesn't seem possible, but they seem to be implying they can do whatever they want voluntarily (game jam BS) just like the folks remaking the graphics and bulldozing the surface map.

It's for their subscribers and fan clubs, and to this day I still ask WHY anyone would subscribe to an individual employee.

Haven't seen it before, but let's analyze this 'conspiracy' regarding Kal'ger:

- He wants to drastically increase his hp, while reducing his defence - which makes this fight much more smoothly, since it feels like 4 out of 5 (if that's even enough) attacks with best in slot equipment are splashing - but I guess that's a 'feature' from a lot of content of that time.
- He wants to make him attackable during a phase transition - which makes this fight much more smoothly.
- He said he wants them to be 'not particularily long, too difficult or tedious, but should be a fun challenge'. Kal'ger is not fun, he's certainly not difficult, but he's tedious and long as hell for what he is.

How is this fucking a bad thing, do you love the majority of dungeoneering bosses to be the broken mess they are right now? When xp/h remain comparable to now (or possibly are even getting better), that is the template on how a lot of the sluggish bosses (I mean - those for which you spend 98 % of your time in some transition phase) should look like. But yeah - if this is 'fun' to you, he'll probably just break something. I mean at least he communicated his intent - how it works out remains to be seen - I do hope we won't end up worse xp wise, than we're now, that's no price, that should be paid for less sluggish content. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

09-Oct-2022 07:00:52 - Last edited on 09-Oct-2022 07:16:21 by Rikornak

Roddy Piper
Jan Member 2011

Roddy Piper

Posts: 13,751 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Yeah yeah, F word cat, that is damage control.

Point is they have a limited amount of time to do anything because 'Game Jam LOL.'

How about if they can improve the game, you share the idea with the boss and they say yes, that is worthy of our time and here is some help.

Make it for real.

09-Oct-2022 08:05:44

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I hardly doubt, that something like giving a bit spit and polish to 12 year old bosses within some side content would justify using an entire dev team for that - it's not even like he would be re-designing them. He just looks at what is broken and how it could be made better - but you'll basically see the same boss fight in its essence. That's literally like rune dragons before they were fixed - they also previously forced you to just sit out their entire transition - but making a fight more fluent, doesn't make them something entirely different.

I mean there is a reason why this stuff was kept broken for a decade - nobody at Jagex bothered doing this. And this isn't even something like some RSC quest, you'll do once and never again (unless you partake in something like FSW), so you could say the fix won't be seen by too many players anyway - that is broken content you'll see over and over and over again.

So yeah - he also said he would tackle more bosses in future game jams - and let's be honest - not just bosses are broken in Daemonheim are broken - or just feel 'off'. And if he communicates with people who actually bother about that content - what's wrong.

It possibly also helps if he shows one boss (ideally one, which you can't even break much more - fully applies to kal'ger), to see if what he wants to do, would actually work - before he really accidentaly ruined the skill entirely - albeit I just can't imagine Daemonheim can get much worse than it is now. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

09-Oct-2022 08:32:44 - Last edited on 09-Oct-2022 08:42:38 by Rikornak

Roddy Piper
Jan Member 2011

Roddy Piper

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Eh, this reminds me of how bad Twitter is. Definitely not meant for public consumption. If people think they can communicate effectively with the public they should try logging out.

Anyways, since nobody actually reads individual twitter accounts, this whole deal was posted on Reddit because the mod said they were fixing the RC light puzzle and they were looking at bosses.

Next thing is they are talking about 500k HP LOL version. You posted the further details, which are not easily found. (by me)

But that is how things get done. They post a random comment for Indiana Jones, who may discover it and decide that we want to spend a lot more time doing something that everybody hates.

Meanwhile, everything else is NOT getting done by anyone.

09-Oct-2022 08:57:07

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Twitter certainly got a lot worse over the past few years when it comes to usability and user experience, but I think it's basically not that bad as a platform for something like that. It's a quick idea, that nobody will bother about in a couple of weeks, but of course what the community makes out of it is something different. But it certainly isn't a place for stuff, that is supposed to remain relevant for just a bit longer than that - it's just fire and forget.

A lot of stuff might not be fixed for now (and it's not even guaranteed we'll see even this one - the new abyssal demon variants released this march stemmed from a game jam in 2017 originally), but Daze at least has shown interest to tackle more bosses in the future - so if Kal'ger ends up as a success it just becomes more likely. And there also are bosses, that aren't even broken mechanically and play fluently. A buff to both their stats and experience rewards would be more than enough for that matter - I can totally live with that, if that one third of bosses, which is broken is getting a fluent feeling in compensation - of course - making them fun and interesting will need more than that.

Daemonheim probably really just is too big of a mess, to fix it in one go - it wasn't even released in a single package if you think about it. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

09-Oct-2022 09:21:56 - Last edited on 09-Oct-2022 09:26:15 by Rikornak

Roddy Piper
Jan Member 2011

Roddy Piper

Posts: 13,751 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Just specific to DG, so many players claim that they hate it, and don't even do it.

There ARE players who complain about the bosses being too easy.

But at the same time, there are bosses that have been broken like the one that requires a pickaxe to chip away the defense. That was recently fixed, but it did take some time to beat him. (unless you were maging)

And it sucked. Any of the bosses that take extra time are miserable, and pointless. Sagittaire, Stomp, Blink, Skeleton horde. Those stand out. The boss being talked about on Twitter my biggest issue is getting into the stupid portals to teleport across.

If there was any other problem I didn't notice. Damage cap? Wouldn't notice.

I haven't put a stopwatch to it, but I am sure there is a maximum amount of time I should want to spend on a boss, compared to the rest of the dungeon.

It's not a lot, I know that for sure.

09-Oct-2022 09:37:49

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Thinking a few minutes about it I can come up with the following:

- Bosses dying in a couple of hits and dealing next to no damage - that genuinely shouldn't be - albeit changing this would be a disadvantage for players, thus only together with a xp buff, that ensures similiar xp rates - preferably better ones for the increased effort.
- Bosses having tons and tons of unskipable transition phases - the wrath of the lich king expansion for world of warcraft was relased a year prior to dungeoneering and has overutilized the same crap and was thus extremely unpopular for its 5 man dungeon content at that time - and even one of the most unpopular ones of all times - just blizzard sorta fixed it for bosses to just have one transition instead of 3 (always 3 in there) - but in daemonheim we're talking about 4-5 times usually... to add insult to injury even one at 1 hp for each and every one of those more crappy bosses.
- Blink - doesn't even need further explanation
- Saggitarius as a ranged based boss, that forces you to deal with him with magic. Is not broken per se, but it's insanely idiotic design, that contracticts everything the game usually shows you.
- Doors blasting you a 4k hit into the face, because RNG didn't liked you - is that fun?
- This broken 'Port Enter' achievement, which brutalizes you for engaging with Daemonheim only late in your progression.
- A lot of puzzle rooms utilizing some ultra obscure mechanics, RNG components or just being incredible sluggish - it's probably easier to count the ones that are fine. I mean nowadays you can at least skip two of them without losing xp.
- Stuff that is outright broken (like that light puzzle)
- Ridiculously rare lore books, for which their 'fix' was excluding them from the MQC, instead of bringing their drop rates to adequate levels (similiar to the 15, that are part)
- And probably even more stuff, for which I just do not think about right now... Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

09-Oct-2022 09:51:03 - Last edited on 09-Oct-2022 09:59:30 by Rikornak

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