RuneScape Forum Archive | ~~Brotherly Love~~

Englishkid62

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Well I just don't believe it is moral for a man to love another man in that way, I think man and woman were created together, and should stay together.. does that make sense?
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Actually, it sort of does, and doesn't. There is a reason for our beliefs, and, WHY do you, or anyone, believe that? What is the reason? You could say, because the Bible tells us so. But that is not the reason either. What is the Bible's reason for saying that? And stating Bible's words are God's words would be wrong, because it was written by people who claimed to have connections with God, claimed their right to pass on their own beliefs and opinions through holy texts.
But we're getting ahead of ourselves and we could easily get lost in the issue of the authenticity of the Bible. The Bible will have us believe that men and women were created together to procreate, and through biological reasons this is the only combination possible, or moral. The Bible also said a great deal of other things, about rules and morals and ideals everyone ought to have. What it assumes, is that everyone's minds work the same, and that its rules are suitable for everyone. What it doesn't understand, is perceptions of the individual in a moment in time, what it means to be another person with a completely different set of needs, with a completely different background. The Bible, in this way, will have us believe that slavery is permitted and people from different races aren't born equal.
The points of this story is, how can you pass judgment, without really knowing the person? Not everyone wants to breed. Not everyone desires the opposite gender, and just because you find it 'wrong' doesn't mean that it is, or should be for everyone else. Nobody in this story seemed to understand another person's position very well, and they use their own beliefs and predicaments to fuel their own decisions, which has proven dangerous for Ronny.

Ruben - I'd better get to creating that thread then O_o

11-Feb-2011 17:35:25

Von Varr

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OK but that is what you believe, I believe that the Bible was indeed written by men, that had a real relationship with God, meaning they talked with him all the time, and so the Bible is true in everything it says. I guess it all comes down to what you believe.

12-Feb-2011 16:57:08

Englishkid62

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I suppose. I detect from your tone that you seem rather disinclined to further the debate, so I won't bring in my points about how many gospels were left out of the Bible, and inconsistencies within the Bible and so the modern Bible suffers a great deal of authenticity issues. I have no problems with people having faith in God, but I have problems with those who preach the Bible and go out of their ways to make another's life difficult.
However, if I am wrong, you may further your points.

12-Feb-2011 17:10:20

Von Varr

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Well you say that certain books were taken out of the Bible, well its because all the book were passed through three questions, and if then answers were not yes to all the questions, the book was not put in the Bible, now i don't remember the questions, but it makes sense to me that it is so. Now, I think is it important that evangelists go out of their way to go talk to people, its not to make their lives difficult, its just so that people realize that God is real and wants a relationship with you, and humans in general. If nobody did that, their would be no faith anywhere.

13-Feb-2011 17:02:16

Englishkid62

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Three questions? Who decides these questions, and who is that person to decide which are God's words and which are not? That is assuming way too much power. To be perfectly honest, some people do realise that God is real, it's just that the real God, possibly, isn't your God.

13-Feb-2011 17:22:45

Von Varr

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Well to be honest, I think a couple of guys, that have a real relationship with Jesus, decided. Now, how hat all went down I'm not sure of, but I know they did a good job. Ok well you say my God, might not be the real God, but how do you know he is not real? or how do you know some other god is the real one?

14-Feb-2011 04:00:42

Englishkid62

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Well to be honest, I think a couple of guys, that have a real relationship with Jesus, decided.
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Actually, it was decided a few hundred years after Jesus's death. And anyone can claim to have a real relationship with Jesus, even today. Spritual relationship. It can't really be authenticated whether it was 'real' or not.
Now, how hat all went down I'm not sure of, but I know they did a good job.
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Basic editorials, to accept only those books that agree with each other. If it conflicts, it must be wrong, surely? I'm not certain.

Ok well you say my God, might not be the real God, but how do you know he is not real? or how do you know some other god is the real one?
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How do I know He's not real? How do I know He's real? Some things you just know. For example, I believe in a God called John Smith. When I prayed to him the other day because I lost my pen, I instantly found it underneath my bag! I prayed to him when my mother got sick, and the next day she was better already. He performed miracles, you see. I feel him speak inside my head some times. So He must be a real God too, right?

14-Feb-2011 18:43:49

Von Varr

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Actually, it was decided a few hundred years after Jesus's death. And anyone can claim to have a real relationship with Jesus, even today. Spritual relationship. It
can't really be authenticated whether it was 'real' or not.
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Well you say you can't authenticate it, and I agree. It all comes down to the honesty of the person, and wether or not you have experienced it for yourself. If you don't know what its like to have a relationship with God, you can't trust people that say they do, because you don't understand what its like.

Basic editorials, to accept only those books that agree with each other. If it
conflicts, it must be wrong, surely? I'm not certain.
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Well maybe some books conflicted against each other, but i truly believe that the men who put the books together, prayed about it, reflected on it, and did their best, the Bible still bring people to God.

How do I know He's not real? How do I know He's real? Some things you just know. For example, I believe in a God called John Smith. When I prayed to him the other day because I lost my pen, I instantly found it underneath my bag! I prayed to him when my mother got sick, and the next day she was better already. He performed miracles, you see. I feel him speak inside my head some times. So He must be a real God too, right?
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If you would not have prayed to John Smith, you would most likely still have found your pen, your mother might still have gotten better. What God does it things that can't be explained, or simple things, but we just don't realize it was Him doing those things. I have seen God in my life doing things that are just not explainable, things that just don't happen in normal life. If John Smith is real, then, in a way, put him to test, see what really happens for big things.

14-Feb-2011 21:24:16

Englishkid62

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Well you say you can't authenticate it, and I agree. It all comes down to the honesty of the person, and wether or not you have experienced it for yourself. If you don't know what its like to have a relationship with God, you can't trust people that say they do, because you don't understand what its like.
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The relationship of anyone with God is whatever that person imagined it to be, so it is different for everyone. One believer cannot truly judge what kind of a relationship another have with God, nor do they truly know. On that basis, much can be fabricated. Even if it is a true relationship, it doesn't necessarily fit in with other believer's views.
Well maybe some books conflicted against each other, but i truly believe that the men who put the books together, prayed about it, reflected on it, and did their best, the Bible still bring people to God.
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Did their BEST to decide which are God's words and which aren't? That is pretentious. The best just isn't good enough. All of them are God's words. Or maybe none of them are. How is that different from choosing which bits of the bible to believe?
If you would not have prayed to John Smith, you would most likely still have found your pen, your mother might still have gotten better. What God does it things that can't be explained, or simple things, but we just don't realize it was Him doing those things. I have seen God in my life doing things that are just not explainable, things that just don't happen in normal life. If John Smith is real, then, in a way, put him to test, see what really happens for big things.
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So, actually, my pen was at this corner of the table yesterday, and today, it appeared in the other corner. That must be the work of John Smith! It's awfully cold this year, that must be John Smith angry at us all. It's not really explanable, but have you not read John Smith's holy text? We must never put John Smith to the test, or we get smite by lightning. How do you know John Smith isn't real?

15-Feb-2011 15:53:22 - Last edited on 15-Feb-2011 15:53:31 by Englishkid62

Von Varr

Posts: 2,467 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

The relationship of anyone with God is whatever that person imagined it to be, so it is different for everyone. One believer cannot truly judge what kind of a relationship another have with God, nor do they truly know. On that basis, much can be fabricated. Even if it is a true relationship, it doesn't necessarily fit in with other believer's views.
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It's not imagined, its real! If I may, what is your background with God? Have you truly ever had a talk with Him? To be honest, when he talks, you know its not you, you feel it inside.

Did their BEST to decide which are God's words and which aren't? That is pretentious. The best just isn't good enough. All of them are God's words. Or maybe none of them are. How is that different from choosing which bits of the bible to believe?
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God was with them, for sure. If you were God, would you just let humans organize what your word is? No, you would make sure they did it right, but then you might say, What about Free-Will? well God was there with the people that did that, and helped them through it, God gave them the responsibility, they did not just take it, it was given to them.

So, actually, my pen was at this corner of the table yesterday, and today, it appeared in the other corner. That must be the work of John Smith! It's awfully cold this year, that must be John Smith angry at us all. It's not really explanable, but have you not read John Smith's holy text? We must never put John Smith to the test, or we get smite by lightning. How do you know John Smith isn't real?
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You are just talking about very simple things, things that just aren't important. If John Smith was the real God, he would not be angry at you, God only got angry before Jesus' death, because there was no way for the people of God to be saved, for no one could accomplish the Law, which is what Jesus did. So now, Jesus takes most of the punishment for our sins. That is why God is not angry at you, he loves you.
Has John Smith ever talked?

15-Feb-2011 22:46:14

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