RuneScape Forum Archive | Shafts of Imagination

Englishkid62

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I did not actually try to 'disprove' your posts, Yrolg. I am sorry if it appeared this way. I only wanted to further some information that in British English, at least from every book that I have read that is published in the UK, that we do *not* use the em-dash in any shape or form, not the -- two hyphens, or three.

We only recognise en-dash, and hyphen. Even though we will keep an open mind when we see an American em-dash. So it's understandable that I twitched a little when I saw the term 'British Em-dash'.

Of course Microsoft Word has the format of an en-dash that allows you to have a slightly extended line than a hyphen (but still one space nonetheless). And this forum only allows dashes written as hyphens, or multiple hyphens strung together, so I guess in that sense you were right about subjectivity and how en-dash should actually be written on this forum.

The purpose of my previous post then, is just to tell you that as British, I have never been taught to write the em-dash and had been confirmed by every grammatical source I have read that was published here. En-dash is all we use really, over here, when completely and utterly without American influences.

03-Nov-2010 17:00:54 - Last edited on 03-Nov-2010 17:25:15 by Englishkid62

Yrolg

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I will repeat only that no source is accurate concerning dashes. No source is an authority.

As I said, I have no interest in debating this with you a) on another person's thread and b) in the midst of serious process of education and/or assistance. I'd be more than willing to discuss it with you on Stories Discussion or The Tribune after this period of review is over.

03-Nov-2010 22:29:02 - Last edited on 03-Nov-2010 22:29:18 by Yrolg

Englishkid62

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Well, I see it necessary that in the process of serious education that, if I have something to offer that is relevant and correct, and information that expands and elaborate on a particular point you have made, I feel the need to inform you both that 'British Em-dash' do not exist.

I have no wish for a debate, but for the betterment of the whole community, if I see an alternative to teachings that have been passed on, or information the receiver need to be made aware of, I will give it.

This is meant to be a contribution, not a personal attack. And I am only supplementing this for Logan's benefits, not yours, as you have seemed to have already made up your mind. I hope that is understandable.

03-Nov-2010 22:36:36 - Last edited on 03-Nov-2010 22:49:38 by Englishkid62

Dec

2023

Logan Shafts

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English:

Well, thank you for taking the time to offer information -- but I think the relevence of it is null and the whole topic is quite naturally trivial (so while information is always nice, it is nothing to get in a fight about).

I am american, so I will only use it how I see it published in american literature, which is basically as Yrolg explained it earlier.

03-Nov-2010 23:26:43 - Last edited on 03-Nov-2010 23:37:01 by Logan Shafts

Dec

2023

Logan Shafts

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Yrolg:

"Empathetic ties will come to existing stories if you rework them so that they're not so unbecoming."
What exactly do you mean? How am I meant to accomplish this? And 'unbecoming' of what?

"You cannot miss if you don't aim, but you surely cannot hit. I don't adjudicate based off of attempts but on results, and if something is missing, by whatever reason, it is strikingly absent."
I agree, but in regards to some things, I am perfectly alright with them staying absent. My stories don't necessarily have to contain those elements. In fact, to my knowledge there is no template for what a story must contain, aside from the basics which define 'story'.

"I do not think your score accurately reflects your talent nor skill, ut it can only reflect the thread."
This is all I ask for of it. The review request was for the purpose of improving the thread. I wouldn't have been very satisfied at all if you had given me a high score and not aided me in any way.

In fact, I picked you to request from because I recognize you as being very adept at english, and thus I assumed you would be more critical about my writing than others. The only thing which disappointed me about your review was that it appears to have been directed more at potential readers than it was at me.

But your review style is, obviously, your choice. Thanks for taking the time to aid me, and the rest of the community.

03-Nov-2010 23:34:55 - Last edited on 03-Nov-2010 23:35:59 by Logan Shafts

Yrolg

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Englishkid62,

For future reference, your entire series of posts is an onslaught of haughtiness. I would encourage you to both devalue the worth of your posts as well as to step back and consider just how appropriate it is for you to interject in the private discussion of other users on a thread that is neither communal nor your own and demand not only recognition of your points but capitulation to your unwarranted and rather fastidious posts. I say this as a means of aiding you to participate in discussions in the future: superciliousness is not conducive for academic discourse.

I think are placing much more value in your opinions than is appropriate. By no means is your duty to rectify every perceived (notice I do not say actual) error in the forum, especially when they are thus sequestered in the venues of private discourse. There is a distinct and acute difference between explicating a fact and truculating a point. You have made your statements, and the author and I have both decided against utilizing them. Your continued pursuit of the subject belies any magnanimous intention you believe yourself to be operating with. I would suggest if, in the future, you still feel obligated to post such things that you not exacerbate the issue by continuing to post after recognition of your point -- which has yet to change -- has been made. Now, as the owner of this thread and the entirety of the concerned parties of the original conversation have deemed your thus-presented input sufficient, I'd like to move on to the actual topic at hand, which happens to supersede the punctilious conversation of dashes.

Please, if you cannot simply leave the conversation, take it up in a more appropriate venue. This thread is by no means such a place.

I will not offer further posts on the matter as I have respect for both the author of this thread as well as the propriety with which I expect my reviews to be conducted. Please do not respond.

04-Nov-2010 16:12:44 - Last edited on 04-Nov-2010 16:34:42 by Yrolg

Yrolg

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"What exactly do you mean? How am I meant to accomplish this? And 'unbecoming' of what?"

If this isn't the question of the century, I'd be surprised. I know that my way of saying it made it appear like a trivial and incredulously easy task, but I assure you it isn't.

Some of the major ways of establishing empathetic ties are thus:

- Consistency and pacing in plot. Having a story that unfolds in an appropriate manner will draw the reader in: you don't want too much action too quickly but you don't want to put your reader into a daze of boredom. I don't have an empirical way of implementing this as each story is different, but I can suggest that after you've written your story you make an outline of the major events. You want to follow the sort of template they teach you in grade school: introduction, building events, high point (****** is censored), resolution. But, in addition to that, you want mini-high points throughout the story, it is long enough to allow.
- Good characters. Dark Enmity and I had a long and very deep discussion about what makes a given book good. (I say book because story gets redundant). I personally am under the impression that the story (read: plot) is paramount, but he is of the mind that the characters make or break it. What cannot be sufficiently denied is that either way, good characters are necessary for a truly stunning piece of prose. You should try to make deep, well-rounded characters, but try to be diverse: not every character needs to be dynamic and round. Even as a person who favours stories over characters, I cannot deny that characters are an integral part of the equation.
- Keep your intended audience in mind whilst writing. It seems common sense, and I don't know if you have consistent problems with this, but it does seem at times like you're writing for yourself rather than for your audience. Whilst good literary practise, this doesn't always translate to an amazing story.

04-Nov-2010 16:34:26

Yrolg

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If you wanted to pick a particular story, I would be more than willing to help you rewrite it to incorporate a greater sense of empathy.

"I agree, but in regards to some things, I am perfectly alright with them staying absent. My stories don't necessarily have to contain those elements. In fact, to my knowledge there is no template for what a story must contain, aside from the basics which define 'story'. "

I find this self-contradicting. I think that your first statement is correct and your second is incorrect. There are zero requisites for something to be a story. I think, however, that there are several requisites for it to be a good one. The reason these things are called "literary tools" is because they exist solely for the purpose of aiding you in writing your story. I think it is unwise for a lumberjack to prefer the hatchet over the chainsaw, especially when his concern is not in how the tree is cut. These tools are at your disposal and I implore that you utilize them them as fully as possible.

I will disclaim, however, that every tool has its time. Whilst a chainsaw would likely get the job done, I still think that the hatchet might be superior in cutting sticks, the hands for twigs. No single tool will work all the time, so the best you can do is expand your arsenal and stock your repertoire full so that you always have at least something you can use.

Remember that there are many different kinds of depth. You say your stories are aimed at illuminating aspects of life. By incorporating a sense of "make them think" you will have depth. To be deep is not without consequence: when your story is deep, your readers will walk away thinking about the theme. When it is shallow, they will simply walk away.

04-Nov-2010 16:35:33 - Last edited on 04-Nov-2010 16:51:05 by Yrolg

Yrolg

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Now, I was in a bit of a rush when I last posted, so I think I might've skipped over one of the most important questions you asked: how to improve upon sentence configuration.

As I said, punctuation plays a big part in the process, but you also need to use your imagination. I'd like to write a bit below to show the sort of diversity you can use.

Bobby was playing with his dog. Bobby was bouncing his ball. His dog was chasing the ball. They were having fun. He bounced the ball into the street. A car was in the way. Bobby's dog ran after the ball. The dog hadn't seen the car. His dog was hit by it.

Bobby and his dog were having fun. They played by Bobby bouncing the ball into the street, his dog chasing after it. When the ball hit the ground this time, however, a car appeared. The dog, not seeing it, continued running. He was hit.

Bobby bounced the ball, watching as the dog ran after it: this was how they played. Bouncing the ball again, this time into the street, Bobby realized that both he and the dog were having fun. The ball bounced into the street, right in front of an approaching car. Focused on the target, the dog didn't see it, and continued to chase the ball. He was hit.

I hope these three examples demonstrate the different effects that different types of sentence configuration can have. Sentence configuration is made up of two things: the format of individual sentences and the format of paragraphs. I already touched on how to diversify the format of your sentences but what I didn't explicate was how important diversity in paragraph composition is. By simply changing the order of the sentences in a paragraph (and they don't have to be chronologically sequential) you can drastically alter the mood of the entire piece.

Once you pick the piece, if you so desire, for my above offer, I'll also try to demonstrate some beneficial alterations in terms of sentence configuration.

04-Nov-2010 17:09:29

Yrolg

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I'm glad that you came to Yrolg's Reviews. It is true that I am more critical than other reviewers, but I also try to be more helpful. Reviews are created for both the readers and the author, so I try to cater to both parties. The actual text of my original review is geared generally towards readers (though the rubric and analysis are for your benefit). This seven days of help, however, is my way of ensuring that you receive comprehensive feedback on the individual topics you wanted to cover.

Whilst you can still benefit from the review itself, I think that portion of it is the most beneficial.

Now, if you have any further questions or comments, please feel free to post them.

04-Nov-2010 17:13:30

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Shafts of Imagination