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Dev Blog: Abyssal Weapons

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poke unit

poke unit

Posts: 386 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Personally agree with what Joy has written and stated throughout this entire thread. The Abyssal Dagger definitely needs some form of improvement to make it more worthwhile over a dragon dagger which will be significantly cheaper, max more and have 4 specs.

The idea of giving it a +50% accuracy boost on special, but retaining the -15% damage reduction seems reasonable, especially if it would max 96 according to Jagex's calculations without the reduction in place. The accuracy boost would make the Abyssal dagger a low alpha, but highly accurate and consistant spec weapon that could be a lot of fun. I personally feel that changing the special attack % from 50% to 35% might also be worthwhile. It would provide you with two immediate specs, with the potential of a third shortly/straight after.

Without the +50% accuracy boost on special and maybe 35% special instead of 50%, the Abyssal dagger would be left feeling incredibly lacking imho.

Gotta add in the fact that this is meant to be a "PVP" orientated weapon, for the PVP community. So I personally believe it should get some needed buffs, with the best interests of the PVP/hybrid community in mind.

10-Jun-2015 01:19:53

Formerly Joy

Formerly Joy

Posts: 2,401 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Thank you ^_^

I am happy that people are still agreeing. The proposed Abyssal Dagger is currently in danger of being underused in PvP and PvM. A small, but very balanced and easy to accept tweak can make it a perfect weapon. Not only that, but a fun and unique one at that.

I am keeping the needs of the Hybridding and PvP community in mind. I am willing to meet common grounds so I accept Ronan's feedback on the damage, but he did not give me his feedback on the accuracy and high drain rate. Which I feel is unable to be reasonably disputed. They asked for a PvP weapon. Without the 50% accuracy and a 30-35% Drain Rate it is not that which they have asked.

Please give this minor buff ^^

poke unit said :
Personally agree with what Joy has written and stated throughout this entire thread. The Abyssal Dagger definitely needs some form of improvement to make it more worthwhile over a dragon dagger which will be significantly cheaper, max more and have 4 specs.

The idea of giving it a +50% accuracy boost on special, but retaining the -15% damage reduction seems reasonable, especially if it would max 96 according to Jagex's calculations without the reduction in place. The accuracy boost would make the Abyssal dagger a low alpha, but highly accurate and consistant spec weapon that could be a lot of fun. I personally feel that changing the special attack % from 50% to 35% might also be worthwhile. It would provide you with two immediate specs, with the potential of a third shortly/straight after.

Without the +50% accuracy boost on special and maybe 35% special instead of 50%, the Abyssal dagger would be left feeling incredibly lacking imho.

Gotta add in the fact that this is meant to be a "PVP" orientated weapon, for the PVP community. So I personally believe it should get some needed buffs, with the best interests of the PVP/hybrid community in mind.

10-Jun-2015 01:37:49

Formerly Joy

Formerly Joy

Posts: 2,401 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Old School did a strawpoll back when Mod Alfred was going to design a weapon live. Abyssal Dagger won and he drew the art being used for the current model. The team has said they can do a different weapon, but the stats would be kept the same. It would be counterproductive and by no means ideal. Especially considering that takes dev time.

Perhaps another time if it's what the community wants? Personally, I love the Abyysal Dagger and want it to pass, but I also want it to be buffed appropriately. This includes an addition of plus 50% accuracy on the Special Attack and a 30-35% Drain Rate. This will make it a true upgrade to the Dragon Dagger and worthy of being used by any and all PK'ers.

That was the goal of making the Abyssal Weapons in the first place. :)

Ms ScoobyDoo said :
Why a dagger? Why not something a bit more flamboyant such as a rapier. :P :O :P

10-Jun-2015 01:49:26

Fappp

Fappp

Posts: 341 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The idea that Joy has put forth seems extremely imbalanced. This is not a main weapon, why does it need to be so powerful?


I agree with the developers on this content idea. We do not need "overpowered" weapons, as suggested by JOY. There is a reason the DEVELOPERS suggested this idea. It was thought out with the players in mind.

Mod Ronan already pointed out that your idea is ludicrous.(Page 21 of this thread for anyone interested)

Why continue posting about it? It does not matter how many "yes men" come to support you, just like anywhere in the world, influence plays a huge role, and you continue to receive support through people that you know, or are ignorant of the idea. That's not looking into the well being of the community, and the players that have been through the rough times, and are still playing this game.

Frankly it just looks like JOY is getting friends to come and support his idea, because any person(S) that can think for themselves, and does any sort of PVP, will understand this idea is absurd and should frankly be dropped.

If I was to sit here for days, I would have time to write messages and tell my friends and accomplices what I want to be said, and how I want to push the message.

Take care everyone!

10-Jun-2015 02:26:29

Formerly Joy

Formerly Joy

Posts: 2,401 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
FAPPP,

If I had my friends and/or subscribers base come here. The thread would be around what? 100 Pages long?

Also, I see no factual evidence. The PvP'ers and I have provided nothing but. Not only us, but even the average player who loves these blogs agrees with us. The Dagger is a downgrade of Dragon Dagger by every angle. I agree with Ronan; the DPS doesn't need to surplus that of the Dragon Dagger, but he didn't disagree with my other points. In fact, he made this thread for a reason? It's a Dev-Blog for feedback.

That of which the players have spoken. Both the Abyssal Dagger and Bludgeon are under powered and thus will become underused. Especially in PvP, the exact reason they designed these weapons.

50% Accuracy and 30-35% Drain does not overpower the Dagger. It only makes it a utility with a chance to combo. The Dagger remains a low DPS output and overall has a hit/miss mentality. If one hit misses they both do. With only 2 readily available Specs, the Dagger has only one chance to KO. That is why a third (30%), or 35% Drain is necessary.

This is what Hybrid PvP'ers and Mains need. Also I did not call it a "main weapon." Pures can use it too obviously. Anyone can. The new Abyssal Weapons will be subject of complete bastardization if we don't fix them.

I gave the fix PvP needs.

10-Jun-2015 02:32:51

Formerly Joy

Formerly Joy

Posts: 2,401 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Facts for anyone interested. By, Woox the infamous PvM'er.


As you can see. Not only in a basic set up does a 30K Dragon Dagger have a higher DPS output, but it also has a higher potential to combo higher hits. The Abyssal Dagger desperately needs an upgrade. That said, the damage is confirmed fine by Ronan. So we must seek a higher accuracy and a lower drain rate.
Otherwise, this weapon isn't anything special. We will only crash the Abyssal Whip markets by releasing the Sire. No one will truly value the Bludgeon, or Dagger in their current state.


A simple +50% Accuracy and 30-35% Drain Rate will 100% fix the daggers under powered issue. Adding these by no means overpowers the dagger. It will be left in perfect balance and will revive Hybrid PvP. Pure bliss.


Woox said :
I've compiled some data in case anyone is interested. Formulas used in the following calculations are taken from the unofficial Combat Formulas thread .

Assuming the following PvP gear setup:
Helm of neitiznot
Fire cape
Amulet of glory
Dragon defender
Fighter torso
Rune platelegs
Barrows gloves
Dragon boots
Ring of recoil

All calculations assume that you're using super combat potions, piety, maxed stats and is doing a fight against a mirror opponent.


Abyssal dagger special attack (+114 strength bonus, +123 stab bonus)
Max hit: 72 (36-36)
Average hit: 11.77
Hit 10+: 31.37%
Hit 20+: 27.67%
Hit 30+: 21.58%
Hit 40+: 13.39%
Hit 50+: 6.59%
Hit 60+: 2.17%
Hit 70+: 0.14%


Dragon dagger speicla attack (+79 strength bonus, +88 stab bonus)
Max hit: 80 (40-40)
Average hit: 12.22
Hit 10+: 41.11%
Hit 20+: 29.90%
Hit 30+: 18.14%
Hit 40+: 5.81%
Hit 50+: 2.75%
Hit 60+: 1.28%
Hit 70+: 0.37%
Hit 80+: < 0.01%

10-Jun-2015 02:42:30 - Last edited on 10-Jun-2015 02:45:51 by Formerly Joy

Formerly Joy

Formerly Joy

Posts: 2,401 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Finally, to add to the above. The Armadyl Godsword will remain the strongest 1-Tick powerhouse in game. This will not be replaced by any means, or even challenged. Meanwhile the Abyssal Dagger will keep on par to items such as the Dragon Dagger, Dark Bow, and possibly the Granite Maul due to its inaccuracies. Although the Granite Maul is capable of exceeding 120 damage all in 1-Tick.

Remember, the Abyssal Dagger and Dragon Dagger are divided into 2 hitsplats. This isn't an AGS which will impose all damage without a chance to counter eat. Not only is my proposal to add the 50% accuracy and 30-35% drain rate completely necessary, but it's proven completely balanced, and it's proven to be countered with ease.

10-Jun-2015 02:44:59

I Am Defil3d
Nov Member 2023

I Am Defil3d

Posts: 63 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Formerly Joy said :
Facts for anyone interested. By, Woox the infamous PvM'er.


As you can see. Not only in a basic set up does a 30K Dragon Dagger have a higher DPS output, but it also has a higher potential to combo higher hits. The Abyssal Dagger desperately needs an upgrade. That said, the damage is confirmed fine by Ronan. So we must seek a higher accuracy and a lower drain rate.
Otherwise, this weapon isn't anything special. We will only crash the Abyssal Whip markets by releasing the Sire. No one will truly value the Bludgeon, or Dagger in their current state.


A simple +50% Accuracy and 30-35% Drain Rate will 100% fix the daggers under powered issue. Adding these by no means overpowers the dagger. It will be left in perfect balance and will revive Hybrid PvP. Pure bliss.


Woox said :
I've compiled some data in case anyone is interested. Formulas used in the following calculations are taken from the unofficial Combat Formulas thread .

Assuming the following PvP gear setup:
Helm of neitiznot
Fire cape
Amulet of glory
Dragon defender
Fighter torso
Rune platelegs
Barrows gloves
Dragon boots
Ring of recoil

All calculations assume that you're using super combat potions, piety, maxed stats and is doing a fight against a mirror opponent.


Abyssal dagger special attack (+114 strength bonus, +123 stab bonus)
Max hit: 72 (36-36)
Average hit: 11.77
Hit 10+: 31.37%
Hit 20+: 27.67%
Hit 30+: 21.58%
Hit 40+: 13.39%
Hit 50+: 6.59%
Hit 60+: 2.17%
Hit 70+: 0.14%


Dragon dagger speicla attack (+79 strength bonus, +88 stab bonus)
Max hit: 80 (40-40)
Average hit: 12.22
Hit 10+: 41.11%
Hit 20+: 29.90%
Hit 30+: 18.14%
Hit 40+: 5.81%
Hit 50+: 2.75%
Hit 60+: 1.28%
Hit 70+: 0.37%
Hit 80+: < 0.01%

10-Jun-2015 02:56:05

I Am Defil3d
Nov Member 2023

I Am Defil3d

Posts: 63 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Ronan only confirmed the damage to be okay. Joy is still 100% right and he is 100% factually right. When it comes to hitting 65-86 KO potentials the Abyssal Dagger fails to meet that of the Dragon Dagger. The Abyssal Dagger is more so capable of averaging a 30.

That is what I call low damage per second... or low output. This dagger still needs to be given the accuracy and lower drain rate. Ronan should be able to see that it's meant to be viable for PK'ers. As is it isn't viable.

After adding the Dragon Dagger +25% accuracy it barely underpasses the Abyssal Daggers hit probability. Add higher accuracy gear and it does surpass it. This isn't fair to PK'ers who want to see a weapon that isn't an AGS to be ddosed for.

10-Jun-2015 03:01:16

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