RuneScape Forum Archive | Dev Blog: Abyssal Weapons

Formerly Joy

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King Jim said :
People need to remember this dagger isn't supposed to be the replacement to a Best in Slot weapon.

When I read it initially I read it as content for 70 attack builds that do not wish to raise their attack any more. There is nothing inbetween a d scim and a sara sword that allows to you only train strength... well third age long sword but w/e.

This is a nice balance for 70 attack builds to be able to do damage and still have a shield.

I balanced it. I even addressed: The solution I offer does not replace many of the superior DPS Special Attacks. AGS, Dark Bow, Granite Maul, Dragon Dagger, and I'm sure a few I don't have the mind to post right now all have superior DPS.

This will only give it superior combo potential. BUT, the DPS is still low. You're not rolling for 60's like an AGS. You're rolling for 40s at best. Your combo if even hits, is more likely to see 30s than it is 80s.

08-Jun-2015 23:06:55

Formerly Joy

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I admit, I'd be willing to suggest an Abyssal Bludgeon special rework if:

1.) I weren't furious about the Abyssal Dagger. It's too good of content to do wrong.
2.) I didn't have any idea how to save it. They're very hellbent on keeping it 2H and players have no idea what to do with it outside of giving it a spec that reduces stats, or deals damage based on reduced stats.

I just can't save it. I truly can't. The dagger I can...

08-Jun-2015 23:09:53

Dec

2023

King Jim

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Formerly Joy said :
Bludgeon is a mockery.

I pointed out. It gains .3% damage per -Prayer Point. If it were to match the MAX of an Abyssal Tentacle: a 50, that would mean at 1/99 Prayer you can max a 79. OH, and 50% drain rate too?!

Armadyl Godsword SCAPE. All hail. All hail AGScape.

I have the max hit of the bludgeon with 49 strength bonus being the max non weapon gear.
-bcp - 4
-tassets - 2
-serp helm - 5
-zerker i - 8
-fire cape - 4
- d boots - 4
- b gloves - 12
- str ammy - 10

Which gives us 49 for armor then a total max strength bonus of 134 which gives us a base max hit of 48.76

When adding in the spec at 99 prayer so 0.3%*98 which is 29.4% so the max with spec is ~63.

I think this is pretty balanced. "I've been playing since 2006 but jagex made me quit 11/20/2013"

08-Jun-2015 23:11:27

Dec

2023

King Jim

Posts: 3,066 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Formerly Joy said :
King Jim said :
People need to remember this dagger isn't supposed to be the replacement to a Best in Slot weapon.

When I read it initially I read it as content for 70 attack builds that do not wish to raise their attack any more. There is nothing inbetween a d scim and a sara sword that allows to you only train strength... well third age long sword but w/e.

This is a nice balance for 70 attack builds to be able to do damage and still have a shield.

I balanced it. I even addressed: The solution I offer does not replace many of the superior DPS Special Attacks. AGS, Dark Bow, Granite Maul, Dragon Dagger, and I'm sure a few I don't have the mind to post right now all have superior DPS.

This will only give it superior combo potential. BUT, the DPS is still low. You're not rolling for 60's like an AGS. You're rolling for 40s at best. Your combo if even hits, is more likely to see 30s than it is 80s.

I'm only comparing max hits. "I've been playing since 2006 but jagex made me quit 11/20/2013"

08-Jun-2015 23:12:32

Formerly Joy

Posts: 2,401 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I did tweet the Old School moderators in hope that they will consider tweaking this new Abyssal Dagger Spec further. They are very open to reason and want the best for the game. I do too. I want to see Hybrids come back again...

Hybrids are by far the most skilled, high risk, high reward, and professional PvP'ers. They are the ones who rule the wilderness. The ones who hold the Clan Cup trophy and the ones who will be entering the *10,000 tournament.

Abyssal Dagger is a hybrid tool and should be fixed. Jagex clearly stated in their Feedback threads, Reddit, and on Twitter: "We want at least one of these weapons to be fit for PvP!"

So I delivered. I hope people will support me. Regardless, I've seen over 75% of the comments on the Dagger on this thread agree with me. The Dagger is too weak.

08-Jun-2015 23:14:46

Formerly Joy

Posts: 2,401 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I can confirm these max hits:

Granite Maul: 45 + 45 + 45 (135.) I have seen 45 at MAX. I'm unsure if Serp Helm buffed this.
Dark Bow: 48 + 48 (96). I have a confirmed 48 + 47 KO on my YouTube channel.
Dragon Dagger: 43 + 43 (86). I don't believe 44's exist, but I may be wrong.
Armadyl Godsword: 80. 1 Tick, can not be eaten out of.

Abyssal Dagger: Based on Woox's info if right... Max gear will be about a 77? No one will risk max gear for a 77.

The current Abyssal Dagger is:
-50% Drain Rate for a downgraded Dragon Dagger. This isn't "reviving PvP."
-DPS in low. Thus, the KO potential wouldn't be OP if we remove, or reduce the current 15% damage reduction of the Abyssal Dagger spec.
-Expensive? Look at Dragon Dagger. 30K For a weapon that hits harder than AGS O_o

-Oh, finally... Did I mention it's split into two hits. You can eat during this time... Shark+Brew is nearly +40 HP. You can also strap a Phoenix Necklace during the time.

08-Jun-2015 23:18:24 - Last edited on 09-Jun-2015 00:57:14 by Formerly Joy

Formerly Joy

Posts: 2,401 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

To any naysayer concerned about my offered rework:
The Abyssal Dagger can be:
1.) Eaten between hits
2.) Phoenix Necklace can be broken during either/or hits
3.) The DPS is low
4.) The DPS I proposed is still lower than its superiors, but is more on par to make it worth using much like AGS's inferiors.
5.) The best part is that I made it a combo wep. Something we don't officially have. This is brilliant. You are still more likely a low DPS roll, but it is highly likely to hit. This is unique and fun.

Abyssal dagger special attack (+114 strength bonus, +123 stab bonus)
Max hit: 72 (36-36)
Average hit: 11.77
Hit 10+: 31.37%
Hit 20+: 27.67%
Hit 30+: 21.58%
Hit 40+: 13.39%
Hit 50+: 6.59%
Hit 60+: 2.17%
Hit 70+: 0.14%

Data provided by Woox and the Combat Formula Forum.
If this data is correct then I have a perfect fix to the Abyssal Dagger nerf. It needs a slight buff to be sure it is used in PvP and helps bring back Hybrid PK'ing:

Abyssal Punture:

50% Drain Rate.

The special attack hits twice in quick succession (just like the dragon dagger) with 10% reduced damage and 50% increased accuracy. If the first hit deals damage, so will the second. Both hits deal damage or neither do.

This will ensure the max hits at least 40; taking into consideration you are willing to RISK max gear. This will also justify the dagger being without poison and will still be lower damage output than several other Spec Weps.

Seriously, is this not what we need to bring back Hybrids? Please consider this. I do not want to see the Abyssal Dagger become useless.

Note: The Abyssal Dagger is still a low DPS weapon. The Special Attack will more often than not hit too low. This isn't fair for half your Spec-Bar.

08-Jun-2015 23:22:13

Formerly Joy

Posts: 2,401 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Oh, right, regarding is it balanced...

99 Prayer to hit a 70 is not balanced. The Bludgeon needs godsend just as much as Dagger does, but I don't know what to do about it. I'll let people with better ideas and stronger opinions work on it. I believe my Dagger rework is the best though. That's my current mission...

I never come to Forums, or defend any minor/major content. This is one of the few times I've come forward and this time the most passionately to hopefully save the content from being underused.

I won't say "dead." I will say completely underused.

08-Jun-2015 23:34:54

Oct

2023

b r ok en

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I calcd without any strength boosting items at 99 str w/no boosts:

Abbysal dagger = 24x2 max
Dragon dagger = 21x2 max

Abyssal dagger takes 50% vs dragons 25%

Dragon dagger is 30k while im pretty sure the abyssal dagger will cost far more.

In addition to this there is literally only 1 reason to consider this over using the hasta and its not a very good one at that.

Am i the only one seeing how the abyssal dagger is turning out to be kinda meh?

08-Jun-2015 23:36:38

Dec

2023

King Jim

Posts: 3,066 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Formerly Joy said :
I can confirm these max hits:

Granite Maul: 45 + 45 + 45 (135.) I have seen 45 at MAX. I'm unsure if Serp Helm buffed this.
Dark Bow: 48 + 48 (96). I have a confirmed 48 + 47 KO on my YouTube channel.
Dragon Dagger: 43 + 43 (86). I don't believe 44's exist, but I may be wrong.
Armadyl Godsword: 80. 1 Tick, can not be eaten out of.

Abyssal Dagger: Based on Woox's info if right... Max gear will be about a 77? No one will risk max gear for a 77. The Dagger is low DPS output, no accuracy boost, drain rate of 50%, and has a high chance of missing both hits.

woox's math wasnt done with max gear "I've been playing since 2006 but jagex made me quit 11/20/2013"

08-Jun-2015 23:44:21