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Formerly Joy

Formerly Joy

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Which even he agrees on my stance... Dagger is way too weak atm.

Bludgeon is too, but idc. Bludgeon isn't going to fix PvP. People will still use AGS over it any day. Dagger, this is the true chance to add a new companion to the AGS. Yet still not overpowered at all. More so, fun and great for hybrid pvp

08-Jun-2015 22:56:07

Formerly Joy

Formerly Joy

Posts: 2,401 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
To clarify, the below is my current stance on fixing the Abyssal Dagger nerf. I still think the Damage reduction should be 0-10%. 10% At BARE MINIMUM. Also, the 50% Accuracy is 100% necessary, or this just isn't worth polling.

Abyssal dagger special attack (+114 strength bonus, +123 stab bonus)
Max hit: 72 (36-36)
Average hit: 11.77
Hit 10+: 31.37%
Hit 20+: 27.67%
Hit 30+: 21.58%
Hit 40+: 13.39%
Hit 50+: 6.59%
Hit 60+: 2.17%
Hit 70+: 0.14%


Data provided by Woox and the Combat Formula Forum.
If this data is correct then I have a perfect fix to the Abyssal Dagger nerf. It needs a slight buff to be sure it is used in PvP and helps bring back Hybrid PK'ing:


Abyssal Punture:
50% Drain Rate.

The special attack hits twice in quick succession (just like the dragon dagger) with 10% reduced damage and 50% increased accuracy. If the first hit deals damage, so will the second. Both hits deal damage or neither do.


This will ensure the max hits at least 40; taking into consideration you are willing to RISK max gear. This will also justify the dagger being without poison and will still be lower damage output than several other Spec Weps.


Seriously, is this not what we need to bring back Hybrids? Please consider this. I do not want to see the Abyssal Dagger become useless.

Note: The Abyssal Dagger is still a low DPS weapon. The Special Attack will more often than not hit too low. This isn't fair for half your Spec-Bar.

08-Jun-2015 22:57:15

Formerly Joy

Formerly Joy

Posts: 2,401 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Legolas said :
So... the dagger kind does need some help. The bleed effect was a nice little addition to the game, and although I'd rather see it attached to a range weapon (like it initially was) I'm ok with putting it on the dagger. Someone new, something we don't have. Good damage stack to go with it.

As for the bludgeon...not so much. My idea for that one is simple: It's a mace/maul type weapon, correct? Well, the Dragon Mace has a 25% damage increase for a 25% reduction in accuracy... so why not add the old abyssal special to it?

Special attack: Max or nothing.

-Upon use, you will guarantee your maximum hit with the weapon, or hit a zero. Accuracy reduced by 25% for. 50% usage

In absolute maximum gear, you're looking at a 48 damage splat. Not overpowered, but certainly better than relying on low prayer.

I still don't see bleed doing anything for PvP, or PvM. The current spec just needs feedback and that's what this thread is. A lot of people aren't happy with it. Or the Bludgeon for that matter.

08-Jun-2015 22:58:20

King Jim
Dec Member 2023

King Jim

Posts: 3,066 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Formerly Joy said :
Legolas said :
So... the dagger kind does need some help. The bleed effect was a nice little addition to the game, and although I'd rather see it attached to a range weapon (like it initially was) I'm ok with putting it on the dagger. Someone new, something we don't have. Good damage stack to go with it.

As for the bludgeon...not so much. My idea for that one is simple: It's a mace/maul type weapon, correct? Well, the Dragon Mace has a 25% damage increase for a 25% reduction in accuracy... so why not add the old abyssal special to it?

Special attack: Max or nothing.

-Upon use, you will guarantee your maximum hit with the weapon, or hit a zero. Accuracy reduced by 25% for. 50% usage

In absolute maximum gear, you're looking at a 48 damage splat. Not overpowered, but certainly better than relying on low prayer.

I still don't see bleed doing anything for PvP, or PvM. The current spec just needs feedback and that's what this thread is. A lot of people aren't happy with it. Or the Bludgeon for that matter.

bleed would be extremely useful, its guaranteed damage. I spec a 40 i can guarantee im going to do 40 more damage. "I've been playing since 2006 but jagex made me quit 11/20/2013"

08-Jun-2015 23:00:37

King Jim
Dec Member 2023

King Jim

Posts: 3,066 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Formerly Joy said :
To clarify, the below is my current stance on fixing the Abyssal Dagger nerf. I still think the Damage reduction should be 0-10%. 10% At BARE MINIMUM. Also, the 50% Accuracy is 100% necessary, or this just isn't worth polling.

Abyssal dagger special attack (+114 strength bonus, +123 stab bonus)
Max hit: 72 (36-36)
Average hit: 11.77
Hit 10+: 31.37%
Hit 20+: 27.67%
Hit 30+: 21.58%
Hit 40+: 13.39%
Hit 50+: 6.59%
Hit 60+: 2.17%
Hit 70+: 0.14%


Data provided by Woox and the Combat Formula Forum.
If this data is correct then I have a perfect fix to the Abyssal Dagger nerf. It needs a slight buff to be sure it is used in PvP and helps bring back Hybrid PK'ing:


Abyssal Punture:
50% Drain Rate.

The special attack hits twice in quick succession (just like the dragon dagger) with 10% reduced damage and 50% increased accuracy. If the first hit deals damage, so will the second. Both hits deal damage or neither do.


This will ensure the max hits at least 40; taking into consideration you are willing to RISK max gear. This will also justify the dagger being without poison and will still be lower damage output than several other Spec Weps.


Seriously, is this not what we need to bring back Hybrids? Please consider this. I do not want to see the Abyssal Dagger become useless.

Note: The Abyssal Dagger is still a low DPS weapon. The Special Attack will more often than not hit too low. This isn't fair for half your Spec-Bar.


OK. Now that I read your spec suggestion for the dagger, I like it, but 50% increase in accuracy with its current stats would never pass a poll. Personally i think the bludgeon is a dumb idea in general so.. "I've been playing since 2006 but jagex made me quit 11/20/2013"

08-Jun-2015 23:02:06

Formerly Joy

Formerly Joy

Posts: 2,401 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
F. Well, to Imperium. He did not agree completely with my proposed Abyssal Puncture. Now even he is willing to say: Abyssal Dagger is too under powered.

I get it, AGS! We're afraid to move forward, but we can add new armor, new consumables food and potions, new prayers, new spells to combat mechanics, etc...

Although, this doesn't even breach that yet. We're talking about making a simplistic weapon to help PvP's current situation. More importantly, to revive hybrid Pk'ing which is currently dead to ags, ddos, and low risk. NO motives for a hybrid. Abyssal Dagger will fix that if done properly.

It must be able to hit. It must be able to put out DPS. It must be an upgrade to Dragon Dagger not a down grade. This thread is for feedback. I've given so much of it. Along with several others speculating the daggers weakness. It needs a PROPER fix before being polled.

Bludgeon too, but honestly idc. Dagger > Bludgeon. At least make one worth using.

08-Jun-2015 23:03:15

King Jim
Dec Member 2023

King Jim

Posts: 3,066 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
People need to remember this dagger isn't supposed to be the replacement to a Best in Slot weapon.

When I read it initially I read it as content for 70 attack builds that do not wish to raise their attack any more. There is nothing inbetween a d scim and a sara sword that allows to you only train strength... well third age long sword but w/e.

This is a nice balance for 70 attack builds to be able to do damage and still have a shield. "I've been playing since 2006 but jagex made me quit 11/20/2013"

08-Jun-2015 23:04:23

Formerly Joy

Formerly Joy

Posts: 2,401 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Bludgeon is a mockery.

I pointed out. It gains .3% damage per -Prayer Point. If it were to match the MAX of an Abyssal Tentacle: a 50, that would mean at 1/99 Prayer you can max a 79. OH, and 50% drain rate too?!

Armadyl Godsword SCAPE. All hail. All hail AGScape.

08-Jun-2015 23:05:09

King Jim
Dec Member 2023

King Jim

Posts: 3,066 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Formerly Joy said :
F. Well, to Imperium. He did not agree completely with my proposed Abyssal Puncture. Now even he is willing to say: Abyssal Dagger is too under powered.

I get it, AGS! We're afraid to move forward, but we can add new armor, new consumables food and potions, new prayers, new spells to combat mechanics, etc...

Although, this doesn't even breach that yet. We're talking about making a simplistic weapon to help PvP's current situation. More importantly, to revive hybrid Pk'ing which is currently dead to ags, ddos, and low risk. NO motives for a hybrid. Abyssal Dagger will fix that if done properly.

It must be able to hit. It must be able to put out DPS. It must be an upgrade to Dragon Dagger not a down grade. This thread is for feedback. I've given so much of it. Along with several others speculating the daggers weakness. It needs a PROPER fix before being polled.

Bludgeon too, but honestly idc. Dagger > Bludgeon. At least make one worth using.

agreed the forum clearly proved it was not as good as the dds, not with its current spec. "I've been playing since 2006 but jagex made me quit 11/20/2013"

08-Jun-2015 23:05:17

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