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Dev Blog: Abyssal Weapons

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king lee166
Jan Member 2024

king lee166

Posts: 43 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
bludgeon, unlike some other suggestions, I wouldn't buff the spec at all. We don't want an AIO main weapon with a high dps + op spec, or it will invite a full wilderness of 1 itemers. As for the main stats, it's pretty even to the saradomin's blessed sword (+2 higher accuracy and -3 str), so I think the latter will be pretty dead content.

the dagger seem way underpowered for lvl 70 weapon assumeing it takes same req as abby whip, we need to outclass the dds with out going op

It seems they were going for lower damage but higher accuracy (via the "both hits lands or neither do" part). Personally, I do find that to be a unique twist on the DDS special, since the DDS is high potential damage but low accuracy and this is higher accuracy but lower max damage. They really need to better clarify how the hit or miss mechanic works and better state that their goal was to make it a weaker damage but more accurate DDS. I mean, the chance for both to miss doesn't seem justified if the "guaranteed second hit" is always a 1.

I think I prefer the original Bleed special.

the dagger spec is a copy of dds so why not just ***** upgrade dds instead of copying it and bring out a craper wep**

we need a 1 handed sword for crush as well

and stop using other web sites for feed back we all dont have a live and bum all other sites i like to get information directly from runescape old school

08-Jun-2015 22:23:46

king lee166
Jan Member 2024

king lee166

Posts: 43 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
bludgeon, unlike some other suggestions, I wouldn't buff the spec at all. We don't want an AIO main weapon with a high dps + op spec, or it will invite a full wilderness of 1 itemers. As for the main stats, it's pretty even to the saradomin's blessed sword (+2 higher accuracy and -3 str), so I think the latter will be pretty dead content.

the dagger seem way underpowered for lvl 70 weapon assumeing it takes same req as abby whip, we need to outclass the dds with out going op

It seems they were going for lower damage but higher accuracy (via the "both hits lands or neither do" part). Personally, I do find that to be a unique twist on the DDS special, since the DDS is high potential damage but low accuracy and this is higher accuracy but lower max damage. They really need to better clarify how the hit or miss mechanic works and better state that their goal was to make it a weaker damage but more accurate DDS. I mean, the chance for both to miss doesn't seem justified if the "guaranteed second hit" is always a 1.

I think I prefer the original Bleed special.

the dagger spec is a copy of dds so why not just ***** upgrade dds instead of copying it and bring out a craper wep**

we need a 1 handed sword for crush as well

and stop using other web sites for feed back we all dont have a live and bum all other sites i like to get information directly from runescape old school

08-Jun-2015 22:24:10

king lee166
Jan Member 2024

king lee166

Posts: 43 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
bludgeon, unlike some other suggestions, I wouldn't buff the spec at all. We don't want an AIO main weapon with a high dps + op spec, or it will invite a full wilderness of 1 itemers. As for the main stats, it's pretty even to the saradomin's blessed sword (+2 higher accuracy and -3 str), so I think the latter will be pretty dead content.

the dagger seem way underpowered for lvl 70 weapon assumeing it takes same req as abby whip, we need to outclass the dds with out going op

It seems they were going for lower damage but higher accuracy (via the "both hits lands or neither do" part). Personally, I do find that to be a unique twist on the DDS special, since the DDS is high potential damage but low accuracy and this is higher accuracy but lower max damage. They really need to better clarify how the hit or miss mechanic works and better state that their goal was to make it a weaker damage but more accurate DDS. I mean, the chance for both to miss doesn't seem justified if the "guaranteed second hit" is always a 1.

I think I prefer the original Bleed special.

the dagger spec is a copy of dds so why not just ***** upgrade dds instead of copying it and bring out a craper wep**

we need a 1 handed sword for crush as well

and stop using other web sites for feed back we all dont have a live and bum all other sites i like to get information directly from runescape old school

08-Jun-2015 22:24:10

King Jim
Dec Member 2023

King Jim

Posts: 3,066 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Woox said :
BioMasterZap said :
Woox said :
I assumed dds has +15% accuracy, as that was what was specified in the combat mechanis thread (I can't guarantee that it is 100% correc though). The other damage and accuracy modifiers are the same as what I used.

The abyssal daggers ability to hit only with only both or none of the two hits doesn't affect the average hit, however it makes it more likely to do high combos (as can be seen in the data table).
Ah, fair enough. I got the 25% off the wiki, but it could very well be 15% considering how accurate the wiki is. I think I misread the table before; I think I looked more at start and end and not the middle. It seems the Abyssal Dagger may server its purpose for being accurate with good combos. Out of curiosity, how would that table change if the Abyssal Dagger got a 15% accuracy boost in its special?

Abysal dagger with 15% accuracy boost with the previously specified setup:
Average hit: 13.53
Hit 10+: 36.08%
Hit 20+: 31.82%
Hit 30+: 24.82%
Hit 40+: 15.40%
Hit 50+: 7.58%
Hit 60+: 2.50%
Hit 70+: 0.16%

If it's used in zer*er or pure pking, I suspect the dragon dagger might be a little better as the chance of both hits hitting will become higher anyway.

The dds has only a 15% increase to damage with 40 str bonus, im not comparing dps simply max hits. The abyssal dagger has 75 str bonus with -15% to its max when you spec. That still has the abyssal dagger hitting higher than the dds. "I've been playing since 2006 but jagex made me quit 11/20/2013"

08-Jun-2015 22:25:02

Afro Teddy
Oct Member 2019

Afro Teddy

Posts: 12 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
BioMasterZap said :
Formerly Joy said :
Not confirmed on blog so will be used in my argument. Still, Serpent Helm fixes this, but the damage output is too small.
Fair enough. It is probably also worth noting that I did ask for calc figuring in a 15% accuracy boost. This is the table for that:
Abyssal Dagger | 15% accuracy | DDS
Max hit: 72 (36-36)| 72 (36-36) | 80 (40-40)
Average hit: 11.77 | 13.53 * 12.22
Hit 10+: 31.37% | 36.08% | 41.11%
Hit 20+: 27.67% * 31.82% * 29.90%
Hit 30+: 21.58% * 24.82% * 18.14%
Hit 40+: 13.39% | 15.40% | 5.81%
Hit 50+: 6.59% * 7.58% * 2.75%
Hit 60+: 2.17% | 2.50% * 1.28%
Hit 70+: 0.14% | 0.16% | 0.37%
Hit 80+: N/A | N/A | < 0.01%

So I do think it could do with a bit of an accuracy boost; maybe closer to 25% even? I don't know; I think I have proven today that I am horrible at judging special attacks and numbers...

No, 25% is too low. PvP'ers are SICK of AGS, ddos, no hybrids, no risk. Joy gave you the ultimate solution and I can't believe it has been ignored.

Personally I still think it should be 2x accuracy, but 50% will have to do. Joy has a great solution if the calcs are right

08-Jun-2015 22:25:20

Afro Teddy
Oct Member 2019

Afro Teddy

Posts: 12 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Yes please

Formerly Joy said :
Abyssal dagger special attack (+114 strength bonus, +123 stab bonus)
Max hit: 72 (36-36)
Average hit: 11.77
Hit 10+: 31.37%
Hit 20+: 27.67%
Hit 30+: 21.58%
Hit 40+: 13.39%
Hit 50+: 6.59%
Hit 60+: 2.17%
Hit 70+: 0.14%


Data provided by Woox and the Combat Formula Forum.
If this data is correct then I have a perfect fix to the Abyssal Dagger nerf. It needs a slight buff to be sure it is used in PvP and helps bring back Hybrid PK'ing:


Abyssal Punture:
50% Drain Rate.

The special attack hits twice in quick succession (just like the dragon dagger) with 10% reduced damage and 50% increased accuracy. If the first hit deals damage, so will the second. Both hits deal damage or neither do.


This will ensure the max hits at least 40; taking into consideration you are willing to RISK max gear. This will also justify the dagger being without poison and will still be lower damage output than several other Spec Weps.


Seriously, is this not what we need to bring back Hybrids? Please consider this. I do not want to see the Abyssal Dagger become useless.

Note: The Abyssal Dagger is still a low DPS weapon. The Special Attack will more often than not hit too low. This isn't fair for half your Spec-Bar.

08-Jun-2015 22:25:42

King Jim
Dec Member 2023

King Jim

Posts: 3,066 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
BioMasterZap said :
1 Eternity said :
The stats of the new abyssal weapons are good, but the specs are so bad that i fear these weapons will be just training alternatives instead of good combat efficient weapons

Abbysal dagger:


Terrible. No originality when there is so manny things a special attack can do. Like what were u guys thinking? a dds like spec that does less damage than dds itself, and uses 50% power? This is horrible!


Abyssal Bludgeon:


Horrible spec aswell, like i dont see any1 use that piece of crap spec for anything it is really terrible jesus.
If you look back a page, you'll see that why the Dagger has less damage than the DDS, it has higher accuracy and will hit 30-60s more often than a DDS by a notable amount.

And I see the Bludgeon being an interesting, even if weaker, alternative to other weapons like the AGS.

cept that math isnt right so... wouldnt quote it "I've been playing since 2006 but jagex made me quit 11/20/2013"

08-Jun-2015 22:26:27

King Jim
Dec Member 2023

King Jim

Posts: 3,066 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Afro Teddy said :
Yes please

Formerly Joy said :
Abyssal dagger special attack (+114 strength bonus, +123 stab bonus)
Max hit: 72 (36-36)
Average hit: 11.77
Hit 10+: 31.37%
Hit 20+: 27.67%
Hit 30+: 21.58%
Hit 40+: 13.39%
Hit 50+: 6.59%
Hit 60+: 2.17%
Hit 70+: 0.14%


Data provided by Woox and the Combat Formula Forum.
If this data is correct then I have a perfect fix to the Abyssal Dagger nerf. It needs a slight buff to be sure it is used in PvP and helps bring back Hybrid PK'ing:


Abyssal Punture:
50% Drain Rate.

The special attack hits twice in quick succession (just like the dragon dagger) with 10% reduced damage and 50% increased accuracy. If the first hit deals damage, so will the second. Both hits deal damage or neither do.


This will ensure the max hits at least 40; taking into consideration you are willing to RISK max gear. This will also justify the dagger being without poison and will still be lower damage output than several other Spec Weps.


Seriously, is this not what we need to bring back Hybrids? Please consider this. I do not want to see the Abyssal Dagger become useless.

Note: The Abyssal Dagger is still a low DPS weapon. The Special Attack will more often than not hit too low. This isn't fair for half your Spec-Bar.


again that math isnt right so idk why everybody is quoting it just because woox put it out "I've been playing since 2006 but jagex made me quit 11/20/2013"

08-Jun-2015 22:27:36

Formerly Joy

Formerly Joy

Posts: 2,401 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Afro Teddy said :
1 last post... abyssal bludgeon is trash. 99 prayer and spec can't even hit 70? lm***?

abyssal dagger? weaker than dragon? LM**O!??

That pretty much sums up this blog. They asked to revive PvP and took suggestions from people who don't PvP in my opinion. Current whip max is 50. Say you're missing 98 prayer points and roll a 50 hit; you've now hit a 79. AGS can do that at full prayer.

Idc about the Bludgeon. It has no potential to fix PvP, but the Dagger on the other hand... You can't ask to "revive PvP' and then make the Lv70 dagger weaker than the Lv60 dagger. This is a joke and I hope it isn't too late to make one last fix.

Please...seriously...apologize for my anger, but if this is done wrong you threw away an amazing opportunity to help revive PK'ing?

08-Jun-2015 22:30:28

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