RuneScape Forum Archive | The net is closing in

May

2016

I Lack Heart

Posts: 947 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Dilbert2001 said :
Do you know what a game-of-chance like Gumball Machine or Kinder Egg is? Of course you you are not 100% certain to receive whatever item. The context in DCMS's document is about the CONTENT (i.e. the prize) to be revealed, not the odd and definitely not a 100% certainly of whatever prize.

I know what kinder egg is, you get chocolate and a random gift you get to actually keep and what you can actually touch. The chocolate alone justifies the value because its candy. Also the things you mentioned hardly give you any advantages irl, like bonus xp for your math grade or any other reason you would feel compelled to purchase them. Try again.

12-Sep-2019 20:31:04

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I Lack Heart said :
Dilbert2001 said :
Do you know what a game-of-chance like Gumball Machine or Kinder Egg is? Of course you you are not 100% certain to receive whatever item. The context in DCMS's document is about the CONTENT (i.e. the prize) to be revealed, not the odd and definitely not a 100% certainly of whatever prize.

I know what kinder egg is, you get chocolate and a random gift you get to actually keep and what you can actually touch. The chocolate alone justifies the value because its candy. Also the things you mentioned hardly give you any advantages irl, like bonus xp for your math grade or any other reason you would feel compelled to purchase them. Try again.

Again, we are and the DCMS's document is, talking about transparency of the content, not the odds or values of whatever items.

DCMS suggests games-of-chance to have their CONTENT revealed which Jagex is already doing. They don't make any recommendations on the odds or values of the CONTENT the consumers can get.

12-Sep-2019 20:37:53

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I Lack Heart said :
Uncl said :
The point people are trying to make is, TH is harmful. So if it's harmful, show me how removing TH removes the harm. What changes in the game? This thread has some 650 posts. Surely there is a list of reasons how it harms. How the game would be altered by removing TH.
What changes you ask? Gambling addicts will stop spending thousands of dollars monthly on game they are addicted to? Is that good enough change for you or do you enjoy people going 50 000dollars in debt before they have even left their parents?

DCMS also addressed the spending part in their document too. Sorry to disappoint you though, since every kid can spend $50,000 on anything online but not only loot boxes (e.g. they can buy $50,000 worth of bond or cosmetics or a car), DCMS suggested not individual game developer/operators but the games and social PLATFORMS to pay more attention to parental control and age verification.

"Brad Enright went on to tell us that

self-exclusion measures

to protect players “could be adopted

by the video games industry

voluntarily to address some of the concerns about excessive time [and] excessive expenditure."

Clearly, suggestions are made to

voluntary industry levies

, not targeted at individual entities.

12-Sep-2019 20:41:10 - Last edited on 12-Sep-2019 20:53:29 by Dilbert2001

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Furthermore, DCMS also clearly stated games and the industry as a whole, have the responsibilities to establish effective age verification tools and counter measures to deepfake harmful content aimed to maliciously damage somebody's reputation. That said, DCMS suggests games, Jagex included, have the responsibilities to make sure their players can't have inconsistent ages at different times and pretend to be somebody else, or do something maliciously aimed at certain users/groups of users to damage their public reputation. That's extremely important.

“Both games companies and the social media platforms need to establish effective age verification tools. They currently do not exist on any of the major platforms which rely on self-certification from children and adults.

“Social media firms need to take action against known deepfake films, particularly when they have been designed to

distort the appearance of people in an attempt to maliciously damage their public reputation

, as was seen with the recent film of the Speaker of the US House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi.”

12-Sep-2019 21:10:24

Mar

2013

Uncl

Posts: 13,097 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I Lack Heart said :
Uncl said :
The point people are trying to make is, TH is harmful. So if it's harmful, show me how removing TH removes the harm. What changes in the game? This thread has some 650 posts. Surely there is a list of reasons how it harms. How the game would be altered by removing TH. What changes you ask? Gambling addicts will stop spending thousands of dollars monthly on game they are addicted to? Is that good enough change for you or do you enjoy people going 50 000dollars in debt before they have even left their parents?
So in other words, we're all 100% gambling addicts - and we all have an extra 50k is disposable income - that would go to fally and type @@@@@@@@@ everywhere, if TH was removed. People would rage quit. Because that's what addicts do.

I'll add in, TH/SoF combats account buying, in the same way bonds help to stop gold farming and rwt. My Threads:
Starting Player Owned Ports-v2

13-Sep-2019 02:00:10 - Last edited on 13-Sep-2019 04:59:55 by Uncl

Mar

2018

Vengeance of

Posts: 2,372 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I Lack Heart said :
Due to several countries investigation of lootboxes, which treasure hunter is, the pay to win era of runescape might be closing to its end.

I doubt it, in fact I think the opposite might be true. I'm confident that they'll start selling XP/BXP directly the second TH is removed-- after all, the main crux of the legal argument against lootboxes is that they're luck-based, not that they're selling in-game progress for real-world money. Selling lamps, stars, or what have you directly would remove the gambling aspect, which, with the possible exception of a few additional restrictions (ie. age-gating to protect children and potentially stricter limits on how much money can be spent within a certain time) would make them perfectly legal under the proposed laws AFAIK.

I think Jagex knows this, too. Why do you think we've gotten the ability to buy the Mahjarrat Aura and Portable Vic for bonds and Limited-Time Event boosters for RuneCoins in just a couple of months? I suspect it's because they know TH is likely not long for this world and that they'll need alternative forms of MTX to pick up the slack when it's gone, and cosmetics aren't cutting it anymore. If they were, Jagex would have been adding a lot more to Solomon's in recent years. And all of these TH promotions? It won't take much doing to make most of them work without the lootbox system.

Mark my words-- until and unless pay-to-win as a whole becomes illegal (don't count on it), Jagex will not stop. MTX and P2W will change its forms, but it's not going anywhere. Why would it, when it's been so successful for them, and as a company who has to answer to shareholders, would face an exodus if such a huge source of income dried up completely? That genie won't be going back in its bottle.

Expect Bonds and RC to become more and more prevalent in the coming years. But hey, at least it won't be random, so there's that going for us.

13-Sep-2019 05:15:03 - Last edited on 13-Sep-2019 05:22:14 by Vengeance of

keggyyy

Posts: 1,602 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Uncl said :
I Lack Heart said :
Uncl said :
The point people are trying to make is, TH is harmful. So if it's harmful, show me how removing TH removes the harm. What changes in the game? This thread has some 650 posts. Surely there is a list of reasons how it harms. How the game would be altered by removing TH. What changes you ask? Gambling addicts will stop spending thousands of dollars monthly on game they are addicted to? Is that good enough change for you or do you enjoy people going 50 000dollars in debt before they have even left their parents?
So in other words, we're all 100% gambling addicts - and we all have an extra 50k is disposable income - that would go to fally and type @@@@@@@@@ everywhere, if TH was removed. People would rage quit. Because that's what addicts do.

I'll add in, TH/SoF combats account buying, in the same way bonds help to stop gold farming and rwt.

Yep and now ppl buy ifb titles and warden titles from other players so they just moved to something else.

13-Sep-2019 09:44:20

May

2016

I Lack Heart

Posts: 947 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Uncl said :

So in other words, we're all 100% gambling addicts - and we all have an extra 50k is disposable income - that would go to fally and type @@@@@@@@@ everywhere, if TH was removed. People would rage quit. Because that's what addicts do.

I'll add in, TH/SoF combats account buying, in the same way bonds help to stop gold farming and rwt.

You really can't speak about things without taking them to two extremes do you? No we are not all gambling addicts but its more common than you might actually believe because of the dopamine, because feeling happy is addictive. World isnt black and white, we arent either alcoholics or absolutists, drug users or sober ect but all those things are regulated or banned to protect the people that suffer from them.

Many of young kids today dont want to drink alcohol so should we just get rid of the age restrictions? Sure it might cause plenty of problems but at least i, a responsible user wouldnt be affected?

And btw, we dont have 50 000 disposable income, thats why people go to heavy debt because its called loan. Of course a child cant get loan, but when they get older and the gambling addiction is already there they can start taking small loans from different companies with huge interest rates ruining their future. I work with these kind of people every week and people with mental health are extremely vulnerable for this because receiving purple prizes or desirable cosmetic item in a game they come to escape reality is something that makes them feel good for a while.

13-Sep-2019 11:50:17

Mar

2013

Uncl

Posts: 13,097 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I Lack Heart said :
Uncl said :
So in other words, we're all 100% gambling addicts - and we all have an extra 50k is disposable income - that would go to fally and type @@@@@@@@@ everywhere, if TH was removed. People would rage quit. Because that's what addicts do.

I'll add in, TH/SoF combats account buying, in the same way bonds help to stop gold farming and rwt.

You really can't speak about things without taking them to two extremes do you?

No we are not all gambling addicts but its more common than you might actually believe because of the

dopamine

, because feeling happy is addictive. World isnt black and white, we arent either alcoholics or absolutists, drug users or sober ect but all those things are regulated or banned to protect the people that suffer from them.

You're the one working on extremes. You're suggesting kids have 50k. That was your point. You're suggesting that the vast majority of parents don't have control over their credit cards, nor take in interest in their kids.

The part in red, contradicts your statement in green.

You see, you're trying to ban alcohol. That's your point. My point is, alcohol has good regulations and doesn't need banning. It's fine - leave TH the way it is, leave bonds the way they are.

You mention, dopamine - which people get from games. So should RS be banned?

You cannot have it both ways. You admit it's a few - even if it's 10%, it's not enough. There isn't any violent crime going on here. It's a game. Have you even tried other mobile games? Do you know the huge difference between what's in RS vs everyone else?

TH is a dnd, with RNG. You can get as many free tickets as you want from just playing. You can even get more tickets from the oddments. So you don't need to pay a dime. My Threads:
Starting Player Owned Ports-v2

13-Sep-2019 14:28:18

May

2016

I Lack Heart

Posts: 947 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Uncl said :

You're the one working on extremes. You're suggesting kids have 50k. That was your point. You're suggesting that the vast majority of parents don't have control over their credit cards, nor take in interest in their kids.

The part in red, contradicts your statement in green.

You see, you're trying to ban alcohol. That's your point. My point is, alcohol has good regulations and doesn't need banning. It's fine - leave TH the way it is, leave bonds the way they are.

You mention, dopamine - which people get from games. So should RS be banned?

You cannot have it both ways. You admit it's a few - even if it's 10%, it's not enough. There isn't any violent crime going on here. It's a game. Have you even tried other mobile games? Do you know the huge difference between what's in RS vs everyone else?

TH is a dnd, with RNG. You can get as many free tickets as you want from just playing. You can even
Runescape itself doesnt have constant billing apart from membership that would be problematic for addiction, of course it can be unhealthy if someone spends majority of their time playing but at least that does not ruin their financial state and future. I never said i want to ban TH, i want games that have them adult only content with age verification, its not the parents job to look after if their kids take their credit card and spend money on game that is rated suitable for them.

In this case it would mean RS would have to remove TH unless they wanted to change their game to adult only.

13-Sep-2019 15:19:25

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