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Aug

2023

UrekMazino

Posts: 7,214 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Dilbert2001 said :
We are seeing more real progress from the Irish government today:

"Loot boxes don't fall under gambling legislation, says Irish government"

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2018-10-01-loot-boxes-fall-within-normal-consumer-law-not-gambling-legislation-says-irish-government
That is the opposite of progress.

Dilbert2001 said :
It is obviously the Irish government are in the group of 16 world governments to focus on 3rd party real world gambling sites, not any legitimate game developers' commerical or e-commerce activity.

TH is a legitimate commericial or e-commerce product, no reason and no legal basis to outcast it.
I would like to see their explanation on how some people can unwittingly spent tens of thousands of dollars on a game. The wouldn't if the purchase was upfront and direct, i.e. you know exactly what you're getting instead of paying money for a chance to get a virtual item you want.

I mean, just look at Eve Online, there's a bunch of in game purchases, some of them are priced in the thousands. Yes, people are spending a lot of money on that game, maybe even more than on games with randomised MTX, but those people spending the money know exactly how much they're spending, whereas the people buying into randomised MTX can't plan out how much they're spending since they don't even know the percentage chance of getting the item they want. Even if they do, they are fairly likely to go over it.

Yes, 3rd party gambling sites are bad, but so are TH and other randomised MTX, because you can't know how much you will be spending and whether you will be getting what you wanted, much like gambling. °l||l° Modest Skillers T7 Citadel | Skilling clan recruiting players. °l||l°
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120 Summoning Familiar ideas .

02-Oct-2018 15:39:00

Aug

2023

UrekMazino

Posts: 7,214 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

19 year old spends $13,500 on MTX in 3 years.
FIFA player did not know he spent over $10,000 and had no idea until he managed to force EA to release his information, also shocked by how much data EA collected on him.
Streamer spent over $20,000 in 5 years, baited in by the competitive advantage it could give him.
0.15% of the players contribute to 50% of the revenue.
Man spends $30,000 on a single game, thinks its unethical that game devs don't tell players the price of the purchases.

And this one takes the cake, though not really related to predatory practices, but just rather the staggering amount of money 1 person can spend on a game.
Man spent $2,000,000, treated like shit by the game support. °l||l° Modest Skillers T7 Citadel | Skilling clan recruiting players. °l||l°
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120 Summoning Familiar ideas .

02-Oct-2018 15:50:49

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

"I would like to see their explanation on how some people can unwittingly spent tens of thousands of dollars on a game. The wouldn't if the purchase was upfront and direct, i.e. you know exactly what you're getting instead of paying money for a chance to get a virtual item you want."

The Irish government already gave an extremely solid explanation. They said when video game developers are selling virtual items in games, mind them loot boxes, skins or other in-game purchases, they are just selling a commercial product. It is under the same common laws governing other commercial products like Baseball Cards, physical loot crates like Nintendo's Ambiibo Crates, or Disney's theme park pass.

Loot boxes, skins and all the in-game purchases including expansion packs and subscriptions may be all pay-to-win, but unfortunately real world laws don't and will never prohibit pay-to-win since the real world is always pay-to-win.

03-Oct-2018 00:46:01 - Last edited on 03-Oct-2018 00:46:42 by Dilbert2001

Aug

2023

UrekMazino

Posts: 7,214 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Dilbert2001 said :
The Irish government already gave an extremely solid explanation. They said when video game developers are selling virtual items in games, mind them loot boxes, skins or other in-game purchases, they are just selling a commercial product. It is under the same common laws governing other commercial products like Baseball Cards, physical loot crates like Nintendo's Ambiibo Crates, or Disney's theme park pass.
That didn't answer my question at all.

Dilbert2001 said :
Loot boxes, skins and all the in-game purchases including expansion packs and subscriptions may be all pay-to-win, but unfortunately real world laws don't and will never prohibit pay-to-win since the real world is always pay-to-win.
That's weird, I remember new laws being passed to restrict/ban loot boxes in several countries and states in US. Please, do continue telling me that it will never happen. And don't lump skin/cosmetics/power ups/expansion packs with loot boxes and randomised MTX, you can actually know exactly how much you will be spending on those whereas you won't for loot boxes. °l||l° Modest Skillers T7 Citadel | Skilling clan recruiting players. °l||l°
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120 Summoning Familiar ideas .

03-Oct-2018 02:42:16

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

UrekMazino said :
Dilbert2001 said :
The Irish government already gave an extremely solid explanation. They said when video game developers are selling virtual items in games, mind them loot boxes, skins or other in-game purchases, they are just selling a commercial product. It is under the same common laws governing other commercial products like Baseball Cards, physical loot crates like Nintendo's Ambiibo Crates, or Disney's theme park pass.
That didn't answer my question at all.

Dilbert2001 said :
Loot boxes, skins and all the in-game purchases including expansion packs and subscriptions may be all pay-to-win, but unfortunately real world laws don't and will never prohibit pay-to-win since the real world is always pay-to-win.
That's weird, I remember new laws being passed to restrict/ban loot boxes in several countries and states in US. Please, do continue telling me that it will never happen. And don't lump skin/cosmetics/power ups/expansion packs with loot boxes and randomised MTX, you can actually know exactly how much you will be spending on those whereas you won't for loot boxes.

They are the Irish government. Their answer is for the ENTIRE WORLD, not just "you".

And they obviously "lump skin/cosmetics/power ups/expansion packs with loot boxes and randomised MTX". They are the Irish government, whether you like it or not. That's their laws for the Irish people and their answer to the World. Likewise, France answered the same way to the World a month ago, and Germany back in February.

And no new laws have been "passed" to restrict/ban loot boxes. There are (dead) Bills in the US only. There have been voices of basically just 1 minister from Belgium but absolutely no legal actions taken. There have been just some requests from Netherlands to 4 games half a year ago, but nothing since and they are apparently happy now. Nothing elsewhere in the World.

03-Oct-2018 02:57:48

Aug

2023

UrekMazino

Posts: 7,214 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Dilbert2001 said :
They are the Irish government. Their answer is for the ENTIRE WORLD, not just "you".
Then don't reply to me if you're not answering my question.

Dilbert2001 said :
And they obviously "lump skin/cosmetics/power ups/expansion packs with loot boxes and randomised MTX". They are the Irish government, whether you like it or not. That's their laws for the Irish people and their answer to the World. Likewise, France answered the same way to the World a month ago, and Germany back in February.
Didn't know the Irish government spoke for the world

Dilbert2001 said :
And no new laws have been "passed" to restrict/ban loot boxes. There are (dead) Bills in the US only. There have been voices of basically just 1 minister from Belgium but absolutely no legal actions taken. There have been just some requests from Netherlands to 4 games half a year ago, but nothing since and they are apparently happy now. Nothing elsewhere in the World.
Oh yea, you're right, that's exactly why Valve, Blizzard, 2K, and other big name game developers have decided to remove loot boxes in several countries including Belgium, Netherlands, and 13 other countries .

"just 1 minister from Belgium but absolutely no legal actions taken"

"some requests from Netherlands to 4 games half a year ago, but nothing since and they are apparently happy now"

Lol, you're just a child covering your ears and crying blah blah blah while all the evidence is stacked against you. °l||l° Modest Skillers T7 Citadel | Skilling clan recruiting players. °l||l°
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120 Summoning Familiar ideas .

03-Oct-2018 13:04:31 - Last edited on 03-Oct-2018 13:04:54 by UrekMazino

Ashlin107

Posts: 4,670 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

UrekMazino said :

Oh yea, you're right, that's exactly why Valve, Blizzard, 2K, and other big name game developers have decided to remove loot boxes in several countries including Belgium, Netherlands, and 13 other countries .

"just 1 minister from Belgium but absolutely no legal actions taken"

"some requests from Netherlands to 4 games half a year ago, but nothing since and they are apparently happy now"

Lol, you're just a child covering your ears and crying blah blah blah while all the evidence is stacked against you.

Agreed. Also I might add that Belgium are putting EA under criminal investigation after they refused to comply with their request that they remove ultimate team. Although who could blame EA considering they've based their entire company off this kind of bad (long term) business. But yea I'd hardly say Belgium and Netherlands are doing "nothing". The statement below is false.
The statement above is true.

03-Oct-2018 13:34:56 - Last edited on 03-Oct-2018 13:35:42 by Ashlin107

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

UrekMazino,

"Then don't reply to me if you're not answering my question."

You post in these RSOF forums, everybody can comment on it. Since you also asked a question regarding the Irish law, only the Irish government can answer it. Why don't you go ask the Irish government if you have question only they can answer? Many webistes just reported this Irish government news. They, and I, obviously don't make laws for Ireland and don't speak for them.

Didn't know the Irish government spoke for the world

They speak for the Laws of Ireland, not the world.

"Oh yea, you're right, that's exactly why Valve, Blizzard, 2K, and other big name game developers have decided to remove loot boxes in several countries including Belgium, Netherlands, and 13 other countries."

No "laws" were passed. They used their existing laws and that's only in Belgium. Netherlands did not request anybody to remove loot boxes. They asked for changes to their games and DOTA2 only made change to real money player trading, so did PUBG, but no loot boxes were removed in Netherlands.

What other companies removed loot boxes in the "13 other countries"? What 13 other countries are they? Who removed their loot boxes. Please tell.

03-Oct-2018 14:55:17 - Last edited on 03-Oct-2018 14:59:56 by Dilbert2001

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Ashlin107 said :
UrekMazino said :

Oh yea, you're right, that's exactly why Valve, Blizzard, 2K, and other big name game developers have decided to remove loot boxes in several countries including Belgium, Netherlands, and 13 other countries .

"just 1 minister from Belgium but absolutely no legal actions taken"

"some requests from Netherlands to 4 games half a year ago, but nothing since and they are apparently happy now"

Lol, you're just a child covering your ears and crying blah blah blah while all the evidence is stacked against you.

Agreed. Also I might add that Belgium are putting EA under criminal investigation after they refused to comply with their request that they remove ultimate team. Although who could blame EA considering they've based their entire company off this kind of bad (long term) business. But yea I'd hardly say Belgium and Netherlands are doing "nothing".

So what have the Belgium "investigation" led to? It has been 6 months but still real world legal actions. Netherlands also has done nothing. They did not even want to reveal the names of the 4 games they requested changes for and since then they have also mentioned "if no real money involved leave the game, it is legal".

03-Oct-2018 14:58:17

Aug

2023

UrekMazino

Posts: 7,214 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Dilbert2001 said :
So what have the Belgium "investigation" led to? It has been 6 months but still real world legal actions. Netherlands also has done nothing. They did not even want to reveal the names of the 4 games they requested changes for and since then they have also mentioned "if no real money involved leave the game, it is legal".
Its not been 6 months, its been less than a month, stop distorting facts.

And boy if Netherlands doing nothing can get Blizzard, 2K, Valve etc to remove loot boxes from their games, they must be doing it very very right. °l||l° Modest Skillers T7 Citadel | Skilling clan recruiting players. °l||l°
•ï¡÷¡ï• Cwar United for CW games/Ardy task/Trim req. •ï¡÷¡ï•
120 Summoning Familiar ideas .

03-Oct-2018 15:42:01

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