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Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Loot boxes typically don't sell well in single user and 4-person coops games but are big in MMOs. Nothing unusual for games like Borderland 3 and Gear of War to monetize such games with cosmetics. You don't need government regulations there as fewer players involvement means less pay-to-win things like loot boxes and bonds.

Apex Legends did not do loot boxes right as they could only be obtained with real money. I said it a millions times TH is good because keys can be obtained for free. Respawn made some changes and let players to buy individual loot box skins for $18 each. But the irony is it was actually more expansive to buy all the skins for a fixed $18 each than getting all of them with average luck for $170. It is a choice for the players though.

More ironies on the Apex Legends is even Respawn CEO spoke out against their toxic community and death threats to their employees:

"I apologize to any of our fans that were offended. I will always stand behind the team here at Respawn and support them on speaking out against some of the toxic and nasty comments being directed at them, including everything from death threats to comments aimed at their family and loved ones. But we shouldn't contribute to it when we do comment, and add to the very thing we want to prevent. We need to lead by example."


That showed the toxic community is worse than loot boxes. Death threats and swatting are not going to go unnoticed by the governments. We'll see how this is going to affect Donald Trump's anti-video game toxicity crusade and UK's Online Harm regulatory framework.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/apex-legends-respawn-ceo-responds-to-studios-freel/1100-6469243/

25-Aug-2019 04:38:44

Torgi Nudho

Torgi Nudho

Posts: 76 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Sup, Lola,

Thanks for the hookup!

If you want a really interesting research document look up: "Loot boxes are again linked to problem gambling: Results of a replication study" by David Zendle and Paul Cairns.


I'm pretty sure you'll like this one!

25-Aug-2019 11:33:01 - Last edited on 25-Aug-2019 11:34:42 by Torgi Nudho

Torgi Nudho

Torgi Nudho

Posts: 76 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Bilbert;

I will try to keep this on-topic (the topic is not about a specific someone's behavior). That said, if I do not like the way someone is replying/reacting to my input, I simply will not acknowledge or quote for a reply.

I hope we can keep this going in a way that is not targeting fellow players of this wonderful thing we call Runescape :)

(PS to the FM: Isn't it: RuneScape?)

25-Aug-2019 11:37:04 - Last edited on 25-Aug-2019 11:41:17 by Torgi Nudho

xox Lola xox

xox Lola xox

Posts: 404 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
They can do all the research they want. Obviously the more research they do the stronger evidence they will have of links between loot boxes and gambling.

What interests me most about this debate is the link between gaming and child abuse, specifically neglect. (I am NOT talking about trolling or terrorism or sexual content for the purpose of this thread) but gaming disorder and addiction and spending money on mummy and daddy's credit card. Not gonna lie, it's fascinating.

As far as gambling is concerned I find it also very amusing that winning money is seen as the problem, because from my perspective that would be the only positive bit about it, but then I don't gamble or spend money on microtransactions at all and treasure hunter makes me feel a bit sick and the fact that Jagex can't even hide the pop up lol.... Anyway...

25-Aug-2019 13:41:43

xox Lola xox

xox Lola xox

Posts: 404 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
https://castlecraig.co.uk/treatment/what-we-treat/gaming-addiction-or-gaming-disorder/

A behavioural addiction, also known as a process addiction, is an addiction to a certain action or behaviour instead of a substance like drugs or alcohol. There are many types of behavioural addictions, including eating disorders, porn addiction, and hoarding. Just like a substance addiction, a person with a behavioural addiction will become preoccupied with the activity and may exhibit withdrawal symptoms when not doing the said activity.

Another symptom is the inability to control one’s time (or money) spent on video games. People who are addicted lose their sense of self-discipline.

In June 2018, the NHS announced that it will provide the diagnosis of gaming addiction and offer treatment for people suffering from it.

Inpatient treatment allows the individual to stay in a residential facility during the course of the treatment. When addressing any addiction, even a behavioural addiction and gaming addiction, inpatient treatment gives the person a better opportunity to recover because they are removed completely from their substance or behaviour, and are not influenced by stresses of day-to-day life, which may have caused the addiction in the first place.
Because Internet access, phones and computers are not allowed in residential rehabs, a person with gaming addiction undergoes a sort of “technology detox”.

You should read it all but I posted couple bits for the fmods who cba to read it.

25-Aug-2019 14:24:55

xox Lola xox

xox Lola xox

Posts: 404 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Now to me the very thought, even though it is actually reality, of a child or even an adult being put in a residential facility and deprived of their rights is likely to cause a problem or two and cost a pretty penny or two, and it is a bit nasty that Jagex want to sit on their arseholes and say that is the problem of the parents, and if they are mental and have shit parents then oh well. I think that kind of neglect is rather irresponsible and should be regulated. I think this problem is going to go through the roof once children start to get diagnosed with this problem more and more. I feel strongly that there is by far enough evidence that the government need to start prosecuting companies.

25-Aug-2019 14:42:19 - Last edited on 25-Aug-2019 14:42:42 by xox Lola xox

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
xox Lola xox said :
They can do all the research they want. Obviously the more research they do the stronger evidence they will have of links between loot boxes and gambling.

What interests me most about this debate is the link between gaming and child abuse, specifically neglect. (I am NOT talking about trolling or terrorism or sexual content for the purpose of this thread) but gaming disorder and addiction and spending money on mummy and daddy's credit card. Not gonna lie, it's fascinating.

As far as gambling is concerned I find it also very amusing that winning money is seen as the problem, because from my perspective that would be the only positive bit about it, but then I don't gamble or spend money on microtransactions at all and treasure hunter makes me feel a bit sick and the fact that Jagex can't even hide the pop up lol.... Anyway...

There are also over 9000 more researches on children spending money online (note: that's online shopping, not specific to games or loot boxes). Of course the governments are aware and in fact most online platforms have parental controls or guidance requirements on children spending money. For instance, Amazon requires e-bay bidders to be over 18 unless they have the consent of the parents. Other countries like Korea also set a purchase limits on online shopping (e.g. there is no refund on internet purchases more than about $60, user be aware).

Not just researches, real world reports also show there are a titanic lot more e-shopping than video game "addicts". However, like online games and social platforms, sales regulation regarding e-bay already falls under the Commerce policy, all the time. There is no specific e-bay regulations or Alibaba regulations and such because there is no need.

25-Aug-2019 16:51:16

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
UK government reiterated the blur line between online gaming and gambling again with their latest report:

Loot boxes still aren't gambling, says BGC, but concerns raised over similarities and companies that fail to police secondary markets


https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-07-26-british-gambling-commission-industry-should-be-proactively-dealing-with-skin-betting

That's right. Skin gambling is obviously gambling. Sites offering a way to cash out their virtual items for real world money or tangible assets like Steam are also subject to further investigation.

"Counter-Strike: Global Offensive is probably the game we've received the most complaints about"


FIFA loot boxes do not constitute gambling in the UK. While the BGC is aware of "ad hoc examples" of real money gambling through secondary sites, Enright said he was satisfied there is "sufficient, ongoing proactive effort by EA" to prevent players gambling through these sites.
- Brad Enright, BGC programme director

However, games that offer real money prizes (e.g. DMM in a Jagex's OSRS or Fortnite) are not considered gambling games because they offer a free way to participate in the competitions for real money prize or "gambling" simulations. So DMM is not gambling.

Moreover, Duel Arena is not gambling as long as like EA, Jagex provides "sufficient, ongoing proactive effort to prevent players gambling through 3rd party sites".

25-Aug-2019 17:03:28

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