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Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
UrekMazino said :
Dilbert2001 said :
No government is doing or ever can do anything to microtransaction in virtual worlds/games. They are, and have been for over 10 years, legitimate e-commerce products and regulated as such. In the case of Ireland, even loot boxes are e-commerce products too.
Wow, they've only been around for 10 short years? Thanks for proving my point.

10 "short" years? Thanks for proving your and my point to JAGEX that governments can't do a thing to MTX.

Come back again in 10 years... and that will be 2029 for those who don't know how "short" is 10 years. :D :D :D

21-Jan-2019 14:42:51

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
UrekMazino said :
Also, do you mind reminding me how many game companies have removed randomised MTX from their games or completely pulled their games off the shelf due to fear of courtcases?

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-07-12-cs-go-update-blocks-players-in-netherlands-and-belgium-from-opening-loot-boxes
https://www.greenmangaming.com/newsroom/2018/08/29/blizzard-removes-paid-loot-boxes-in-belgium/
https://www.kitguru.net/gaming/damien-cox/valve-removes-loot-boxes-from-counter-strike-global-offensive-in-belgium-and-the-netherlands/
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2018-09-25-arenanet-removes-loot-boxes-from-guild-wars-2-for-players-in-belgium
https://www.theguardian.com/games/2018/nov/21/square-enix-pulls-games-mobius-final-fantasy-belgium-loot-box-ban
https://europeangaming.eu/portal/latest-news/2018/09/07/27678/no-more-in-game-loot-boxes-in-belgium/


Wanna keep reiterating the point that nothing has happened? Or do you want to finally stop going in circles?

Again, these are just Steam games with Real Money Player Trading and a couple other games and nobody from the Belgium and Netherlands governments have spoken since April 2018.

You also misquoted many posts, especially the Eurogamers ones, for example since then Steam have made changes to Real Money Player Trading and odds of their loot boxes and as a results they still have loot boxes in their games in Netherlands. :D :D :D

"Earlier this year, Valve began showing players in the Netherlands what was inside the game’s loot boxes before they purchased them, following a letter from the Dutch Gaming Authority in June demanding the changes."

https://kotaku.com/valve-discloses-the-odds-for-its-new-dota-2-loot-boxes-1829854001

Now, what about EA? What about other Steam games not named CS:GO and DOTA2? What about all the over 9000 games with loot boxes? What about Jagex's TH?

Loot boxes as usual. :D :D :D

21-Jan-2019 14:57:19

UrekMazino
Aug Member 2023

UrekMazino

Posts: 7,214 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Sorry, I didn't realise that you had to tackle every single game with loot boxes simultaneously to only then be considered fighting against randomised MTX.

Providing one single example is already enough to disprove your statement:
Dilbert2001 said :
Extremely obvious nothing has happened.
Because something has happened. °l||l° Modest Skillers T7 Citadel | Skilling clan recruiting players. °l||l°
•ï¡÷¡ï• Cwar United for CW games/Ardy task/Trim req. •ï¡÷¡ï•
120 Summoning Familiar ideas .

22-Jan-2019 01:56:12

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
UrekMazino said :
Sorry, I didn't realise that you had to tackle every single game with loot boxes simultaneously to only then be considered fighting against randomised MTX.

Providing one single example is already enough to disprove your statement:
Dilbert2001 said :
Extremely obvious nothing has happened.
Because something has happened.

Sorry I didn't realise that one of the millions of people in your city got accused of speeding almost a year, everybody in your city become murderers now. :D :D :D :D :D :D

22-Jan-2019 02:36:00 - Last edited on 22-Jan-2019 02:36:29 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Playing dumb and keep going in circle won't change a thing. Real world regulators don't allow anybody to go in circle. Even Larry, Moe and Curly know that when they go to COURT! :D :D :D

Everybody knows everythig about Belgium and Netherlands have been discussed in this thread already:

http://services.runescape.com/m=forum/sl=0/forums.ws?366,367,thd,978,65988614

Both countries have said nothing since April 2018. The entire world knows it. EU knows it. Even some Lowest Common Denominator (used to be) loud mouths know it and have been shut up. Even some "morons" and "a$$holes" some veteran game industry analysts called out for being a game industry stakeholder in politician skin knows it. :D

If somebody still don't get it that they have totally failed and keep trying to go hopelessly in circle, very well. I am more than happy to keep the real world enlightened about all those fake reports.

If some people insist, I will show the truth, and start with the first fake report about Belgium action in Dec 2017 in my next post. :D :D :D

22-Jan-2019 15:41:21

UrekMazino
Aug Member 2023

UrekMazino

Posts: 7,214 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
This isn't going anywhere because you aren't explaining yourself. I don't know why you keep saying nothing has happened when some game devs have already removed loot boxes or their games entirely from certain countries. I've already provided sources. °l||l° Modest Skillers T7 Citadel | Skilling clan recruiting players. °l||l°
•ï¡÷¡ï• Cwar United for CW games/Ardy task/Trim req. •ï¡÷¡ï•
120 Summoning Familiar ideas .

23-Jan-2019 01:53:26

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
UrekMazino said :
This isn't going anywhere because you aren't explaining yourself. I don't know why you keep saying nothing has happened when some game devs have already removed loot boxes or their games entirely from certain countries. I've already provided sources.

Of course you are not going anywhere because you only quoted the misreports that loot boxes are gambling in Belgium as many false news like this one surfaced in November 2017:

https://www.vg247.com/2017/11/22/belgiums-gaming-commission-says-loot-boxes-in-games-are-gambling/

This site have the moral to correct itself a few days afterward though:

"Update: Actually, it seems that Belgium’s Gaming Commission has not made the decisive statement we believed they had."


Belgium has only decided a few games "violated" their gambling rules, but that's only according to a minister of their legislative department, but no law enforcement and judicial officials sided with him.

Just one person in Belgium says a couple of people are speeding but nobody arrests him and summon him to Court, even Larry, Moe and Curly know Belgium can't consider every one of their residents murderers. :D :D :D

23-Jan-2019 02:47:07

UrekMazino
Aug Member 2023

UrekMazino

Posts: 7,214 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Dilbert2001 said :
Belgium has only decided a few games "violated" their gambling rules, but that's only according to a minister of their legislative department, but no law enforcement and judicial officials sided with him.
That right there, is that not something being done about the situation? You never specified the extent of what had to be done, you only said nothing was done, and then here you go, contradicting yourself. °l||l° Modest Skillers T7 Citadel | Skilling clan recruiting players. °l||l°
•ï¡÷¡ï• Cwar United for CW games/Ardy task/Trim req. •ï¡÷¡ï•
120 Summoning Familiar ideas .

23-Jan-2019 07:14:20

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
In this post, we are going to look at the TRUTH why the governments think TH is not gambling while they rebut the false claims that it is.

First, it is a fallacy the governments have not gotten to Jagex’s TH regarding gambling but they will be in you know how many years later? 10 years, 30 years, 100 years or the 9000th Age?

Indeed, this article showed the TH gambling “controversy” was being revealed and even the vocal professor who made the claim can have no more words blaming TH as a form of gambling:

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-10-11-are-loot-boxes-gambling

"Loot box systems are gambling in my view," Griffiths says. Griffiths penned an academic paper that explores whether RuneScape's Squeal of Fortune and Treasure Hunter features should be considered gambling. He arrived at an unequivocal yes, not just because the mini-games meet the criteria for gambling set out in the Gambling Act of 2005, but because the bonds won from these mini-games have value outside of the game. (UPDATE: a representative from Jagex contacted Eurogamer to say these bonds can no longer be used for real-life services. Instead they can be used to purchase membership to the game itself. We've asked why this change was made and will update when Jagex responds.)"


So, in short, TH has been reviewed and found not gambling because no real money is involved. Even the nay-sayers can’t deny that.

On the other hand, if Jagex allowed their virtual currencies/items, regardless they are TH items, gp, bonds, Twitch Bow etc to leave their games and turn into real money, then it is gambling. That's why Duel Arena staking for real world money/benefits and/or 3rd party gambling promotions outside the game in OSRS is gambling.

https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/99omj1/in_relation_to_recent_events/

Fortunately, in RS3, no illegal 3rd party gambling promotions or Duel Arena Staking of Twitch Bow for real money is found. RS3 is not gambling.

23-Jan-2019 15:28:27 - Last edited on 23-Jan-2019 15:31:40 by Dilbert2001

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