RuneScape Forum Archive | The net is closing in

May

2016

I Lack Heart

Posts: 947 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Dilbert2001 said :

Absolutely no need as I mentioned.

GTA V and CoD: WWII are rated 18+ in many countries. Nothing extra needed to be done by the game developers whatsoever because laws don't require them.

Its great that you assume every child actually has parents left, its like you are living in a dreamland where there is no problems and if there is its the parents fault for trusting their child not getting hooked on tempting 'dont miss out, last chance' offers for new stuff to win.

if its a kids game its not the parents job to check if it has elements that will get their kids hooked to gambling.

if you agree that opening a booze store next to rehab center is a dick move then you surely agree that targeting children with loophole gambling to get them spend more is just as bad

07-Oct-2018 20:04:31

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I Lack Heart said :
Dilbert2001 said :

Absolutely no need as I mentioned.

GTA V and CoD: WWII are rated 18+ in many countries. Nothing extra needed to be done by the game developers whatsoever because laws don't require them.

Its great that you assume every child actually has parents left, its like you are living in a dreamland where there is no problems and if there is its the parents fault for trusting their child not getting hooked on tempting 'dont miss out, last chance' offers for new stuff to win.

if its a kids game its not the parents job to check if it has elements that will get their kids hooked to gambling.

if you agree that opening a booze store next to rehab center is a dick move then you surely agree that targeting children with loophole gambling to get them spend more is just as bad

Whether a kid has parents or whatever hypothetical scenarios won't change the fact that the kid still has to abide to

LAWS

, I mean the real

LAWS

.

Rockstar and Blizzards don't treat any kid with or without parents differently in their 18+ only games GTA V and CoD:WWII to say the least. Why? Very simple. Because they all have to abide to the same LAWS, and that is the regular commerce law, not hypothetical "video game gambling laws".

Are we really talking about real world government regulations like you claimed in your first post? Or just something you dream up?

07-Oct-2018 20:31:44

FiFi LaFeles

Posts: 24,106 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Dilbert2001 said :
FiFi LaFeles said :
snip for brevity

Yes, I understand your question is for OP about how Jagex can turn TH into Adults Only piece of content.

However, I think my response to you actually answered your question, and it is such parental controls in consoles, Windows and such already exist for the parents. They can decide what game is not suitable for their children already. Microsoft, console makers and such do this to comply to regular commerce laws pertaining to almost every internet site such as eBay, Amazon, Youtube, etc but not just video games and certainly not just a TH or loot box in any of such games.

So this becomes the responsibility of the parents if they choose to block off whatever games/entertainment or even payment options. The responsibility is not on the entertainment providers.

If TH was "Adult Only" which it clearly, certainly, completely, absolutely 100% is not, then all Jagex needed to do was to indicate their game(s) contain "Adult Only" in-game purchase but nothing else. This would also make themselves in compliant to PEGI and ESRB standards too.

No, that does not address my query at all actually.

I'm not interested in whose 'responsibility' it is for what children do.
I am asking if there are measures available to Jagex which could effectively exclude minors if Jagex were to implement certain Adults Only content.

Notification that the game includes Adults Only content would not effectively exclude minors from participating. Whether such notification is compliant with certain standards is not relevant to me, since notifications can be ignored. My question concerns is it possible to effectively exclude minors from certain aspects of the game.

I am still assuming this is not the case.

Le Chat Guerrier

Bwian's Towel & Grief Shop

07-Oct-2018 21:32:14

FiFi LaFeles

Posts: 24,106 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I Lack Heart said :
FiFi LaFeles said :
Forgive my laziness if it's already been laid out, but, how would Jagex go about ensuring that TH is accessed by adults only?

Historically, kids under 13 in this game claimed to be over 13 so as not to attract the speech restrictions so what is there to effectively stop minors from accessing any content that is deemed to be Adult Only?
Quite simple, remove the pay by phone option and change back to system where you have to confirm your purchase via net bank. There is minors that do own netbank but you cannot fake your age with it, if its an adult only purchase the confirmation for payment will not go through.

Also simply remove keys from bonds.

That wouldn't stop minors from using the credit card of a parent/sibling/other who is classed as an Adult and saying it is for a 'harmless' ingame purchase such as a desired cosmetic or somesuch. I can imagine many Adults would view such items as not-gambling, especially if lied to.

I'm not convinced that making some content Adults Only would, in fact, have much effect at all. Sorry.

Le Chat Guerrier

Bwian's Towel & Grief Shop

07-Oct-2018 21:38:25

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

FiFi LaFeles said :
Dilbert2001 said :
FiFi LaFeles said :

No, that does not address my query at all actually.

I'm not interested in whose 'responsibility' it is for what children do.
I am asking if there are measures available to Jagex which could effectively exclude minors if Jagex were to implement certain Adults Only content.

Notification that the game includes Adults Only content would not effectively exclude minors from participating. Whether such notification is compliant with certain standards is not relevant to me, since notifications can be ignored. My question concerns is it possible to effectively exclude minors from certain aspects of the game.

I am still assuming this is not the case.

Literally no and impractical.

If there is only a 30 second scene of R-rated graphics in a movie, the whole movie is rated R. And the theater can't let a minor buy a ticket. They can't just find a way for the kid to watch the entire movie minus that 30 second scene.

07-Oct-2018 21:57:37

FiFi LaFeles

Posts: 24,106 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

A bit of a non-starter of an idea then.

I can understand the concern expressed by I Lack Heart (although I don't actually share it at this point in time, truth be told) and sympathise with his/her well-meaning intentions.

But if Jagex are showing no signs of concern that there is a problem, or that it breaches any existing laws, and there seems to be no relatively easy way of enforcing any concerns Jagex might have then it seems we are destined to remain with the status quo.

Thanks to you both for responding, I was curious. I'll leave you to it!

Le Chat Guerrier

Bwian's Towel & Grief Shop

07-Oct-2018 23:20:05

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

FiFi LaFeles said :

I can understand the concern expressed by I Lack Heart (although I don't actually share it at this point in time, truth be told) and sympathise with his/her well-meaning intentions.

But if Jagex are showing no signs of concern that there is a problem, or that it breaches any existing laws, and there seems to be no relatively easy way of enforcing any concerns Jagex might have then it seems we are destined to remain with the status quo.

Well-meaning intentions such as how existing LAWS do not work, or are not perfect, or even in hypothetical situations one thinks do not apply (e.g. kids without parents do not have to abide to the LAWS) should be directed to the LAWMAKERS, not to a business or the customers of such a business. The business and its customers also have no positions not to abide to existing LAWS, let alone changing them neither.

Apart from how certain user's well-meaning intentions should be addressed, I believe as a business, Jagex is absolutely correct with their business as usual approach with TH, while paying special attention to already identified problematic areas by international governments in 3rd party skin trading and offsite gambling.

08-Oct-2018 15:32:54 - Last edited on 08-Oct-2018 18:02:44 by Dilbert2001

Sep

2011

War tortoise

Posts: 9,487 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I Lack Heart said :
Dilbert2001 said :

Absolutely no need as I mentioned.

GTA V and CoD: WWII are rated 18+ in many countries. Nothing extra needed to be done by the game developers whatsoever because laws don't require them.

Its great that you assume every child actually has parents left, its like you are living in a dreamland where there is no problems and if there is its the parents fault for trusting their child not getting hooked on tempting 'dont miss out, last chance' offers for new stuff to win.

if its a kids game its not the parents job to check if it has elements that will get their kids hooked to gambling.

if you agree that opening a booze store next to rehab center is a dick move then you surely agree that targeting children with loophole gambling to get them spend more is just as bad

if a child doesn't have parents left, then how are they paying for said purchaces?

also this isnt a kids game, its aimed at people 13+ not kids, and if the kids want to be naughty and steal a cc for TH then i'd say its the parents fault tbh... plus with bonds you don't nessarly need a cc anyway. Lost Woods numba 1, (NOT EE, Those scrubs are liars ;p)

*~War Tortoise

18-Oct-2018 17:12:44 - Last edited on 18-Oct-2018 17:16:06 by War tortoise

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

TBH, most parents don't care about what video games their kids play. If the children try to swipe the parents' plastics on games behind their backs, the parents only have themselves to blame both legally and morally.

Take for an example of Black OP 4. It is a 18+ game in EU and rated Mature in the States but who the hell care? Not the parents care obviously since it made a record shattering half a billion dollars the first week at launch. But guess what? Investors said not enough from just the box sale numbers as they haven't seen any MTX plans yet, so there goes Blizzard's stock price. Just today alone it dropped >8%.

For the record, PEGI has been doing their best to give parental guidance and in game purchase control suggestions:

https://pegi.info/page/game-purchases

That's the best they and the world governments can do literally. If the parents are willfully blind on the obvious parental control measures including blocking the games and/or payment they don't approve, there is really not the fault of the LAWS. Saint Peter can only shake his finger at the parents, not the game developers at all.

19-Oct-2018 03:03:17 - Last edited on 19-Oct-2018 03:08:02 by Dilbert2001

Neuro Agent

Posts: 259 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

If this were to happen to Jagex, you don't seem to understand the unintended consequences of the action itself.

1) You'd have actions against people who paid for services via TH and they'd no longer have access to said services.

2) To fill the void, additional funding would have to be sourced through possibly higher membership fees.

3) IT IS THE ADULTS RESPONSIBILITY TO MONITOR THEIR KIDS AND THEIR OWN FINANCIAL RECORDS. Even if they don't have parents left, it's not Jagex's responsibility to be a care taker to a child, this game has grown with its' community and this really isn't a kids game anymore.

4)Although I despise TH, it would only make jagex explore additional means of getting money and although that may lead to some better ideas, it could also lead to ones that are much worse. (IE: An energy bar, or more simple features locked behind a paywall (bankspace)).

The fact that people think that companies should be held liable for actions of children is laughable. If you have kids but don't pay attention to them and your own financial records, you probably should be.

20-Oct-2018 17:03:01

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