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Captain Lime
May Member 2019

Captain Lime

Posts: 6,940 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'm fairly sure that the Kharid-ib, in some way or another, is very closely related to Tumeken's Soul. Whether it is merely the container for it postmortem, or if it is physically the soul or physically his heart is up for debate. I feel that Tumeken's heart may actually be the diamond, as Amascut describes it as if it were actually his heart (or how she perceives it): Cold, small, and hard. However, it could just as easily have been merely (using "merely" very lightly here as it's still impressive) as a receptacle for Tumeken's soul.

Of course, I don't know if Tumeken were actually like that - you describe Tumeken as a dreamer, as did Mod Osborne (in a response to a question i asked on a campfire!) To be honest, I feel like Tumeken was the exact opposite of a dreamer. He seemed to be quite the realist - he did what needed to be done, when it needed to be done. He did not accept mediocrity from his children, and he had great foresight with the Mahjarrat. He actually seems like quite the realist to me.

As for the Shadow theory - I agree with you that Uzer Mastaba likely didn't have the ACTUAL shadow of Tumeken... However, a person can cast many shadows. Maybe Uzer Mastaba contains some small part of Tumeken? Food for thought.

Anyways, THE Shadow of Tumeken, the one that actually matters, is going to be very important to get to reassemble Tumeken. However, shadows could be interpreted in two ways: they can either be the opposite or a representation of something. What I've found on Ancient Egyptians seems to depict them as representations - so perhaps a Shadow of Tumeken will be a representation of Tumeken on certain issues?

I do agree that a good quest would be having to side with Sliske to try and recover Tumeken's Soul - it'll delve into not only the Shadow Realm, but also into Death, Tumeken, and how Gods are doomed.

I may actually RuneLabs that right now...
^ "Some of those words were
STUPID.
" - Mod Raven

10-May-2016 18:38:12

SurviveDeath

SurviveDeath

Posts: 40 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Actually regarding Tumeken's personality, the lore campfire is exactly where I pulled it from and seeing as Mod Osborne described him as such, I do think that in the future Tumeken's intentions or personality would be made more apparent as an idealist.

I have a theory regarding why Tumeken blew himself up and I do believe that it is linked with Tumeken's connection to the Underworld. This theory also takes into account that Tumeken is an idealist.

Tumeken obviously has a certain relation with death seeing as his son Icthlarin and his daughter Amascut have roles to take care of the dead. Why would a god burden his children in taking care of the dead? Why not just let the dead souls wander forever on River Noumenon? Now Tumeken was known as the god of light or the god of the sun and one thing which is heavily associated with light is the afterlife. In Egyptology, the sun was thought to travel from west in Duat (the underworld and residence for certain gods) to east in Aaru during the night and would "resurrect" each morning. Aaru is known to be the Fields Of Reeds which is the heavenly paradise that the soul travels to if they passed the Weighing Of The Heart ceremony. The souls would live for eternity continuing their normal lives and Aaru is filled with fertile land, ideal hunting and fishing spots. To put it in Runescape terms, Duat might refer to the Underworld and Aaru would refer to the Afterlife. Tumeken might be the god of the Afterlife.

During the Second Age, Tumeken made the decision to blow himself up, knowing that while decimating his enemies, it would also cause great destruction to the people that he was trying to protect as well. To me, this decision seemed a little off since it would destroy his people and cause him to abandon his family as well. The Mahjarrat are powerful but taking into account that there are at least four gods fighting for the desert, I'm sure they would be able to put up a decent fight against the Mahjarrat.

11-May-2016 15:05:26

SurviveDeath

SurviveDeath

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If Tumeken is the god of the afterlife or like the sun that travel through the underworld and resurrect each morning after reaching afterlife as depicted in Egyptology, it would explain on how he would have the knowledge of "cheating" death by blowing himself up. This would enable him to return after "killing" himself. This could be done by severing his soul in many pieces and disseminating them so that when he "died", he would not have perished in the process. Death's Scythe might have a part in severing his soul.

As for repercussion that would sacrifice his own people, their souls would appear in the Underworld and through the guidance of Icthlarin, the souls would be guided to the Afterlife where they would experience eternity and heavenly paradise. This is an idealistic point of view and if Tumeken is a realist, he would have gone head to head with the Mahjarrat and not resort to such tactics.

Tumeken as an idealist would see this as a right move since his people would be transitioning from a worse place to a better one and for the survivors, there would be peace. However, lives were lost and souls cannot return to the realm of the living, hence the naivety of such a solution. One thing that I was unable to find out was the exact moment that Amascut turned into the Devourer and this transformation probably stopped Tumeken's plans from being carried out. It could be possible that she might have turned insane from the amount of people that Tumeken killed and might have grown spiteful by seeing all the dead Mahjarrat and possibly with Tumeken himself.

This would stop Tumeken's plans since she is in charge of offering the most worthy the choice to be reincarnated or to continue to the afterlife. Thus, Tumeken could not be reincarnated in fear of being devoured by Amascut. If you view it from the perspective of the Weighing Of The Heart, Tumeken's soul would be heavy since he killed many of his own people and would be devoured.

11-May-2016 15:50:10

SurviveDeath

SurviveDeath

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Tumeken is a higher tier god than Amascut but he would be pretty weak after blowing himself up. And I think that by banishing Elidinis through the Edicts Of Guthix did not really help the situation for reviving Tumeken where Elidinis would probably be able to protect her husband from Amascut.

That was a lot of speculation but I was wondering what your thoughts are on this. Do you think that Tumeken has a certain unexplained connection with death?

11-May-2016 15:57:32

Captain Lime
May Member 2019

Captain Lime

Posts: 6,940 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Sorry it took so long for me to respond to this, but it took a while to think of a good answer.

I don't know if Tumeken would be hiding in the Afterlife - it seems like a sort of thing that Icthlarin would know about if it were the case. That's the short version of my answer, so now let's get into the long version.

The decision to destroy himself in the desert seems like it was a long-term one, but for several reasons: the most foremost that I can tell you is that it not only shows Zaros that the Menaphites are willing to do whatever it takes to resist his rule, but it effectively protects Menaphos and Sophanem from invasions... forever. Secondly, it gives him some room to operate in the desert - he can still influence the place even if he appears to be dead, much like how mummies are according to Senliten. I don't know how premeditated his decision was to destroy himself, but dialogue from Icthlarin and the fact that we have an ib lying around suggests that it was a very calculated endeavor.

As a side note: I would assume that if Tumeken were a T2 god, he would have a much easier time with this gambit. However, this could be more evidence that he was a T2 god. The tier system is really flawed. Back to the answer!

Tumeken has a great association, or maybe reverence is the better word, with the Afterlife and Death - I would assume he gave his children custodianship of the afterlife to guarantee that what lies beyond his protected for his people. He comes off as very fatherly to me, but that's just my opinion. I don't know if that indicates he's hiding out way back there. For that, we turn to Icthlarin.

Icthlarin has effectively been sending people to and from the afterlife since Tumeken "died." the biggest issue I have with this theory (and the secondary Zarosian "death&quot ;) is that Icthlarin would have seen them at some point in the last 6,000 years*

**;DR: A long way to say 'I dunno, but I think it's unlikely." My specialty.
^ "Some of those words were
STUPID.
" - Mod Raven

15-May-2016 06:21:59

SurviveDeath

SurviveDeath

Posts: 40 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Actually, how I envisioned it is that Tumeken is still in the realm of Gielinor and that in the end, we would have to bring the his soul to the Afterlife to revive it. This is referencing from the Diamond In The Rough quest which I think has some form of foreshadowing.

In that quest, the player holds the Kharib-Ib and follows the message "follow the path of the sun into the lion's mouth" where we followed a bunch of sundials to ruins of the Temple of Amascut. This could mean visiting the various aspects of the Desert and obtaining various parts of his soul and 'into the lion's mouth' could mean to bring his soul past the Avatar Of Amascut in the Underworld.

Well a theory is a theory and I'm sure that Jagex would reveal it soon if 2017 becomes the year of the desert :)

Anyway, how I see the entire Desert storyline is actually two storylines intertwined with each other with the first being the desert gods and the second being the rightful ruler of the desert. I would like to expound on how these two might be tightly intertwined.

Regarding Queen Senliten in Missing My Mummy, the player had to obtain the Mummy's name Papyrus which associates Senliten with Tumeken and two sentences struck me were 'Daughter of the divinity through the royal blood of the deity' and 'Reborn through Itchlarin into this realm as has been and will be'.

In Egypt, Kings would associate themselves with the god Osiris and just as I explained in an earlier post, Osiris was associated with rebirth where he was stitched together and revived by his wife Isis. By associating themselves with Osiris, the Kings hoped that just as Osiris gained life, they too would receive eternal life. Additionally, a sick person would associate themselves with Horus who is the son of Isis and Osiris and since being a son of a god, the goddess Isis would not hesitate to heal her son Horus which would enable the sick person to be healed.

18-May-2016 09:52:01

SurviveDeath

SurviveDeath

Posts: 40 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'm gazing in my crystal ball here and I think that quite possibly in the Sixth Age we would see the return of Tumeken or the player would at least succeed to a certain degree in bringing him back. This would enable Senliten to regain her life and possibly be revived as well. Depending on how Jagex plays it, we could see Amascut pacified or she may have escaped from being punished by the other gods. If Amascut manages to escape, it could propel the narrative where Amascut would be working with Senliten to reclaim the throne and through this process, it will bring great destruction and chaos not only within Menaphos but also an all-out war with Al Kharid as well.

18-May-2016 10:01:35

A Mighty

A Mighty

Posts: 2,337 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Read this a while ago, just wanted to say nice job! I especially liked all the theories :P

Would you mind telling us your convoluted timeline that leads to the Strange Machine being built by Zamorakians?
To those cursed by war and pest, Come into the light of Armadyl and rest. This is the law of Armadyl.

02-Jun-2016 00:06:20

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