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Well, since you know about the devourer beast in Egyptian mythology, you probably know her name.
Ammut
It likely isn't a coincidence that in this story Amascut the devourer is in possession of this cold, hardened, heavy heart.
In different ages, Ammut was sometimes a god, sometimes a demon, and sometimes just a lake of fire. The Ancient Egyptian civilization was ridiculously long lived, enough so that religious beliefs about Ammut had time to change that much. Kind of confusing, like the demigod status of Amascut herself. The character of Amascut herself is probably inspired by a mishmash of Ammut and Sek*met with dashes of Bastet mixed in. Her pre-craziness story makes me think there are bits of Anubis (as judge of the dead) and Osiris (as god of rebirth) too, but that was precrazy and Icthlarin is the clearest analogue for Anubis.
Oh gods, I just read up on the god Babi the baboon who was sometimes said to hang around Ammut and devour hearts with her.
. Babi is probably not Apmeken's inspiration, but maybe he is the inspiration for Eruni, Leeuni, and Ayuni.
Humility is self-destruction, pride is the destruction of all else.
And He said, "
Ammut
It likely isn't a coincidence that in this story Amascut the devourer is in possession of this cold, hardened, heavy heart.
In different ages, Ammut was sometimes a god, sometimes a demon, and sometimes just a lake of fire. The Ancient Egyptian civilization was ridiculously long lived, enough so that religious beliefs about Ammut had time to change that much. Kind of confusing, like the demigod status of Amascut herself. The character of Amascut herself is probably inspired by a mishmash of Ammut and Sek*met with dashes of Bastet mixed in. Her pre-craziness story makes me think there are bits of Anubis (as judge of the dead) and Osiris (as god of rebirth) too, but that was precrazy and Icthlarin is the clearest analogue for Anubis.
Oh gods, I just read up on the god Babi the baboon who was sometimes said to hang around Ammut and devour hearts with her.
. Babi is probably not Apmeken's inspiration, but maybe he is the inspiration for Eruni, Leeuni, and Ayuni.
Humility is self-destruction, pride is the destruction of all else.
And He said, "
Let there be light.
"
And then there were
none
.
29-Apr-2016 13:58:32 - Last edited on 29-Apr-2016 14:15:41 by Penny Drakis
Hey there Captain Lime!
The theories that you put up here is really interesting and it made me delve into Egyptian mythology to gain more clarity on Desert Pantheon.
For the Weighing of the Heart Ceremony, it is interesting to note that the if the heart is sinful and heavier than the feather of Ma'at, it will be devoured by the beast called Ammit which is also known as the devourer or soul eater. This is a parallel to the Kharid-Ib (possibly Tumeken's heart) being stolen by Amascut which funnily enough is known to be the Devourer as well. Not to mention, Ammit has lion characteristics as well. So in a sense, yes Tumeken could be damned
The theory that you proposed here about the soul being split into multiple parts will prevent Amascut from devouring that heart and thus, she will wait until Tumeken's soul is made whole again before trying to devour Tumeken.
The Osiris Myth could lend credence to your theory as well where Osiris who is an Egyptian god was murdered, cut up into multiple parts and his body parts were scattered across the desert. The goddess Isis finds his body parts, stitches them up together and wraps them in linen which makes it the first mummy. After which, she uses a spell and resurrects Osiris. In this case, Tumeken who exploded could have scattered and fragmented his soul into multiple parts and the Kharid-Ib could be the physical manifestation of a part of his soul. Quite possibly, just like Seren and Osiris, Tumeken could be resurrected once again with all the parts of his soul reunited.
The theories that you put up here is really interesting and it made me delve into Egyptian mythology to gain more clarity on Desert Pantheon.
For the Weighing of the Heart Ceremony, it is interesting to note that the if the heart is sinful and heavier than the feather of Ma'at, it will be devoured by the beast called Ammit which is also known as the devourer or soul eater. This is a parallel to the Kharid-Ib (possibly Tumeken's heart) being stolen by Amascut which funnily enough is known to be the Devourer as well. Not to mention, Ammit has lion characteristics as well. So in a sense, yes Tumeken could be damned
The theory that you proposed here about the soul being split into multiple parts will prevent Amascut from devouring that heart and thus, she will wait until Tumeken's soul is made whole again before trying to devour Tumeken.
The Osiris Myth could lend credence to your theory as well where Osiris who is an Egyptian god was murdered, cut up into multiple parts and his body parts were scattered across the desert. The goddess Isis finds his body parts, stitches them up together and wraps them in linen which makes it the first mummy. After which, she uses a spell and resurrects Osiris. In this case, Tumeken who exploded could have scattered and fragmented his soul into multiple parts and the Kharid-Ib could be the physical manifestation of a part of his soul. Quite possibly, just like Seren and Osiris, Tumeken could be resurrected once again with all the parts of his soul reunited.
29-Apr-2016 14:20:28
Sorry for this ultra late response, I've been really busy with finals and decided not to let this distract me from my studies. Now that it is finally done, I can reply to this thread
I find it quite weird how this thread receives really little interest and attention while the Menaphos thread on Runelabs suggestion received more replies than here.
Nonetheless, let's get started. Actually when you mentioned that the Kharib-Ib weighed 21 grams, it was really nagging at the back of my mind and I finally realized why. I actually heard that number on a podcast which was discussing on how heavy a human soul weighed. 21 grams was the result of Dr Duncan MacDougall's experiments which measured the mass lost by a human when a person died. He hypothesized that the soul had mass and theorize that since the soul departed the body at death, it would cause this loss in mass. However, his results were not that reliable since he only weighed six patients while they were dying.
What this could mean is that it is indirectly hinting that the Kharib-Ib is Tumeken's soul. However, we do not know Tumeken's race and whether this is theoretically his entire soul. We might argue that the other aspects of the soul might not have a weight attached to it, seeing as Shadow, Personality, Name and Ka seem to be things which would not have a mass.
To your question on whether the heart is left in the body, yes, the physical heart would still be left in the body. However the Ib (heart) is one aspect of the soul which I believe is not a physical one and since it is part of the soul, when Tumeken "died", his soul would have departed from his physical body . This would mean that the Ib also left the body and if the soul truly has mass, it might presumably form a physical manifestation. Alternatively, just like the heart scarab I mentioned earlier, the Kharid-Ib could be a receptacle of sorts and would absorb the "Ib" aspect of Tumeken's soul when he "died".
I find it quite weird how this thread receives really little interest and attention while the Menaphos thread on Runelabs suggestion received more replies than here.
Nonetheless, let's get started. Actually when you mentioned that the Kharib-Ib weighed 21 grams, it was really nagging at the back of my mind and I finally realized why. I actually heard that number on a podcast which was discussing on how heavy a human soul weighed. 21 grams was the result of Dr Duncan MacDougall's experiments which measured the mass lost by a human when a person died. He hypothesized that the soul had mass and theorize that since the soul departed the body at death, it would cause this loss in mass. However, his results were not that reliable since he only weighed six patients while they were dying.
What this could mean is that it is indirectly hinting that the Kharib-Ib is Tumeken's soul. However, we do not know Tumeken's race and whether this is theoretically his entire soul. We might argue that the other aspects of the soul might not have a weight attached to it, seeing as Shadow, Personality, Name and Ka seem to be things which would not have a mass.
To your question on whether the heart is left in the body, yes, the physical heart would still be left in the body. However the Ib (heart) is one aspect of the soul which I believe is not a physical one and since it is part of the soul, when Tumeken "died", his soul would have departed from his physical body . This would mean that the Ib also left the body and if the soul truly has mass, it might presumably form a physical manifestation. Alternatively, just like the heart scarab I mentioned earlier, the Kharid-Ib could be a receptacle of sorts and would absorb the "Ib" aspect of Tumeken's soul when he "died".
08-May-2016 13:53:06 - Last edited on 08-May-2016 13:56:58 by SurviveDeath
As to your question on what the other gods would be in charge of, I'm not entirely certain and I do not want to make any speculations yet until I run through all the desert quests again.
As for Tumeken's shadow, it did make an appearance in the quest "Missing My Mummy" in which the player had to defeat five versions of it. This would be linked to Tumeken's shadow aspect of the soul. I highly doubt that we actually "killed" his shadow seeing that it's highest level in the quest is level 70 and being a god's shadow, the combat level should be much higher.
Anyway, I find this quite ironic since Tumeken is known to be the god of light or god of the sun and if he is like what it says he is, there should not be any absence of light around him that would cause a shadow. But then again, a shadow cannot exist without light and Egyptians do focus a lot on the concept of duality and symmetry. It is not clearly stated what purpose the shadow aspect of the soul is but it is believed that the shadow contains the essence of one's being. This is why statues are also sometimes referred to as shadows.
A theory on what purpose the shadow has is that Tumeken's shadow could be the alter ego of Tumeken. It could represent opposite of what Tumeken is. For example, Tumeken is known to be the idealist and a dreamer who turns away from problems but Tumeken's shadow would be a realist who faces his problems head on. Essentially, Tumeken's shadow would be a doppelganger of sorts.
Another way to look at is the desert is constantly plagued by the hot sun and shadows are places which are coveted to escape from the heat and the glare of the sun. This would represent Tumeken's protection where his shadow is protecting those who worship Tumeken.
Or it might be an amalgamation of both theories
I think that this would also be a wonderful opportunity for a quest to delve into the lore behind the shadow realm where the retrieval Tumeken's shadow would rely on Sliske's help.
As for Tumeken's shadow, it did make an appearance in the quest "Missing My Mummy" in which the player had to defeat five versions of it. This would be linked to Tumeken's shadow aspect of the soul. I highly doubt that we actually "killed" his shadow seeing that it's highest level in the quest is level 70 and being a god's shadow, the combat level should be much higher.
Anyway, I find this quite ironic since Tumeken is known to be the god of light or god of the sun and if he is like what it says he is, there should not be any absence of light around him that would cause a shadow. But then again, a shadow cannot exist without light and Egyptians do focus a lot on the concept of duality and symmetry. It is not clearly stated what purpose the shadow aspect of the soul is but it is believed that the shadow contains the essence of one's being. This is why statues are also sometimes referred to as shadows.
A theory on what purpose the shadow has is that Tumeken's shadow could be the alter ego of Tumeken. It could represent opposite of what Tumeken is. For example, Tumeken is known to be the idealist and a dreamer who turns away from problems but Tumeken's shadow would be a realist who faces his problems head on. Essentially, Tumeken's shadow would be a doppelganger of sorts.
Another way to look at is the desert is constantly plagued by the hot sun and shadows are places which are coveted to escape from the heat and the glare of the sun. This would represent Tumeken's protection where his shadow is protecting those who worship Tumeken.
Or it might be an amalgamation of both theories
I think that this would also be a wonderful opportunity for a quest to delve into the lore behind the shadow realm where the retrieval Tumeken's shadow would rely on Sliske's help.
08-May-2016 15:27:08
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