RuneScape Forum Archive | Let's talk about Armadyl.

Jul

2013

Derack

Posts: 3,066 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

^
Like i always said, he wants to become A Godking. The Godking probably.
Either way i doubt sara is that much of a paranoid. He'll ellect those he deems trust worthy enough with authority, while he him self has the final say in the matter.

Player: There are better ways to create a Utopia.

Saradomin: Yes, you are right of course. The stone was the easy path, but it is not the only one. Instead of days, Utopia may have to take years, decades, or even centuries. It will be a long process, but I am, like my patience, eternal. Until we meet again Player.

Shows (to me atleast) some form of reason and listening to others have to say. Or well, those close to him.

If Arma was indeed willing to reason he would have done something more at the end of the godwars..

Zamorak: Armadyl? Please...
Armadyl: I am sorry, Zamorak. I cannot allow chaos to engulf this world.

So much for considering other people their points of view.

Kimi Mela said :
Now I'm going to stop bumping this stupid thread because it's becoming clear Talon has no interest in intelligent conversation.
There is quite a irony in this.
But no worry. you'll post again either way, even if it's trully your last.

"If you believe you can distance yourself from the harm you cause, you're deluding yourself. You're not some mindless tool. You're accountable. Your actions will catch up with you eventually." -Jedi Master Jun Seros; Swtor Bounty Hunter storyline.

01-Jun-2020 21:48:51 - Last edited on 01-Jun-2020 21:50:30 by Derack

Padomenes

Posts: 3,662 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

He only wants to be a god mainly, Saradomin would probably support Anarchy for example if it means people are freeing themselves from a dictator that wants to rule because they claim to be powerful.

Saradomin wants to uproot all forms of authority that involve the ruler seeing fit to do be in-charge just because they are more powerful like with Zamorak's followers such as Drakan, Zemouregal or himself.

If the flaw in Zamorak's philosophy that gives rise to control freaks which infact 'give no space for chaos/change' was deliberate.

Saradomin wants to be the 'top god' because he wants to stop this kind of thing from happening that Zamorak wants, where the most powerful rise to the top and control everybody. He wants everybody to be free to live their lives from tyrants that rise to power and think they have the right to control others or do injustices to them because they are 'stronger'.

In this sense Saradominists are extremely hardcore anti-authority, like they do not want an unjust ruler that forces themselves and sets standards for what 'success' is for everybody to follow based on power.

Zamorak indirectly believes in submission to rules and standards of success created by the powerful to benefit themselves 'if you are not strong enough to take them on', and Saradomin believes in defying them at all costs no matter what.

01-Jun-2020 22:58:58 - Last edited on 01-Jun-2020 23:04:28 by Padomenes

Jul

2013

Derack

Posts: 3,066 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

A god KING. Why else sit on a throne and dress like one?
Does it also count if the people want to be free of Saradomin? I'm pretty sure Sara is more of a control freak then Zamo. Sara would make sure no chaos or disorder will happen in his world view, beside he seems more a follow the rules, or "do as i say not as i do." kind of guy.

Zamo will encourge self progress, people to overthrow tyrants, to rise to power, probably at no matter the cost of it.
Only form of control i would see Zamorak enforce is so that no one can kill/overthrow him instead.

Are all Saradominists really anti-authority? Never really seen it.
They are more like; you either see eye to a eye with us, you are wrong and against us or stay out of our way and don't bother us at all.

They are no better then those they fight against.

In the end there is a irony in it all.
The thing about being on the top is, you'll end up becoming what you swore to prevend in the first place.

"If you believe you can distance yourself from the harm you cause, you're deluding yourself. You're not some mindless tool. You're accountable. Your actions will catch up with you eventually." -Jedi Master Jun Seros; Swtor Bounty Hunter storyline.

07-Jun-2020 19:54:35

Padomenes

Posts: 3,662 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

How do we know Zamorak isn't some character similar Molag Bal though that uses his 'strength through adversity' philosophy to justify conquering and enslaving people into hierarchies? I mean if anything that is hierarchical and very authority based.

Its often used to justify tyranny in alot of cases. "I am stronger so I get to have your lunch money, strength through adversity."

Domination is what often leads to loss of freedoms and autonomy, not always order as defined by Saradomin in the sense people are protected from being dominated by others with power.

Zamorak seems to support domination or is a heavy enabler, whether deliberate or not as we see with Drakan. Hence on those grounds you could call him a dictator who is far from a 'chaos god' that supports change and toppling of domination based hierarchies with chaos/destruction.

Saradomin protects people from tyranny in the same sense Aragorn or King Arthur does. He is basically a King Arthur or Aragorn figure himself.

While Zamorak is like Sauron or Molag Bal.

11-Jun-2020 18:05:22 - Last edited on 13-Jun-2020 12:17:41 by Padomenes

Jul

2013

Derack

Posts: 3,066 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Really, comparing Zamorak to Molag Bal? Even Zamo would be disgusted by the like of him.

Way i see it.
Zamorak would check on Gielinor and it's inhabbits from time to time to see how it's involving and becoming stronger. Cause a apocalypse or some random fire from time to time to see how mortals would react to it (,whatever they want/supect it or not).
Those that thrive, good. Those that fail or die, well to bad, better fight next time, or not.
Encourge a rebbelion here and there, and his work is done for the day.

ZAMORAK: Armadyl... Bandos... Hear me. Everything I have done I have done for Gielinor. I seek only to raise up the inhabitants of this world!

ZAMORAK: Conflict would be inevitable, of course, but the people of the world would be free. Free to fall and grow, to fail and rebuild-

Perhaps. But they always act so surpirsed when many disagree with them.
The only ones that would seek to dominate are those that believe they can hold and are entitled to that power, they are not, never are.

With Drakan, well, he did his own things. Zamo had other things to worry then what Drakan or Zem and all were doing. if he won the war i'm pretty sure Zamo would keep his eyes on those two and put a stick in their wheel from time to time, even perhaps just for the heck of it.
But i dunno, i don't see him to be that of a domination guy, a conquer, yes. but never that.

Ehh.. Sara never strikes me as the protector one. He trys, but always ends up causing more harm then good. (like every damn hero in any story). i could add more. But Arma and Bandos say it the best.
ARMADYL:You speak as if you are benevolent, Saradomin, but you do not practice what you preach!
BANDOS:You need war, just like me. I see it in your eyes: the lust for glorious battle.

Yeah... No.

"If you believe you can distance yourself from the harm you cause, you're deluding yourself. You're not some mindless tool. You're accountable. Your actions will catch up with you eventually." -Jedi Master Jun Seros; Swtor Bounty Hunter storyline.

15-Jun-2020 19:49:08 - Last edited on 15-Jun-2020 19:51:55 by Derack

Padomenes

Posts: 3,662 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

The whole point of Saradomin or Saradominism though is to have a figure akin to Aragorn or King Arthur who protect people from being dominated. I mean if you're familiar with those characters you would be familiar with how it works;

Aragorn defeated Sauron and created a society where nobody was dominated (This is what people in general or Saradomin mean to claim often when they say 'protected from evil').

King Arthur had a society where people were protected from being dominated under his rule.

16-Jun-2020 03:46:19

Jul

2013

Derack

Posts: 3,066 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I dunno.
I don't know much about Arthur's legend's and forgot mostly about Lotr story to make a proper judgment or comment. But...

Comparing those two story's where the villians are just evil for the sake of it with no redeeming qualitys, compared with RS and Zamorak beliefs, seems like a bad example to use.

Difference i see with Sara and those other two you summed up, Saradomin Wants to be the one. A king of kings, a hero of kings, the god king, doesn't matter really. It's him and those that either stand with him, below or be a threat to his world view.

Doesn't mean his rule would be bad, but people seem to forget that those who fight evil end up having their own hands stained in blood and fear, no matter how bad someone is. In many cultures, all life and it's beliefs is sacred or/and valuable, you can never justify your reasons for you actions towards it, no matter how moral right you are or how many fingers you point.

One way or another, any kind of society is and shall always be build on the backs of the dead, either with few bodies on top or a mountain.

You are either live under a vile ruler, or one who is to narrow minded for their own good.
Either way, both are a form of prison, only difference is, one has better comfy beds.

"If you believe you can distance yourself from the harm you cause, you're deluding yourself. You're not some mindless tool. You're accountable. Your actions will catch up with you eventually." -Jedi Master Jun Seros; Swtor Bounty Hunter storyline.

16-Jun-2020 19:01:51 - Last edited on 16-Jun-2020 19:03:10 by Derack

May

2022

Scombridus

Posts: 2,745 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Saradomin makes his own good arguments.

SARADOMIN:I have walked many worlds and interacted with numerous deities, but none I find quite as deplorable as the usurper Zamorak. Even his divine nature is brought about by the betrayal of one he claimed to serve. The theft of another's essence. He preaches a creed of 'strength through chaos', spreading the lie that his acts of wanton cruelty are really lessons that help us grow. Why must people die for us to learn how to defend them? Could he not simply teach them? Offer the people ways to improve themselves, spread his meagre knowledge to better them? No. Instead he sends demons to raid their villages. He tricks learned mages into dabbling with foreign magics. Then Zamorak watches as people die in suffering and agony. Where is the strength in that? Where is the wisdom? It's psychotic indulgence of a monster, not the acts of a god.

(cont.)

28-Jun-2020 14:26:17

May

2022

Scombridus

Posts: 2,745 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Player: You've killed people, though.
SARADOMIN:Yes. I have taken lives in my time. I won't deny that. But i have always done so with purpose...with greater good in mind. I fought wars because there are some who understand no other discussion. Without the clash of sword and shield, they cannot hear reason. It is silence to them.
I have committed acts that some would call cruel, but they are a woeful necessity. Once I was forced to take the wings of an icyene. To tear them from her back and leave to the the mercy of winter. We were heading into a time of war, against an aggressor native to Hallow.
I had been forced to militarise the noble icyene. The icyene are a powerful race, but still mortal, and their numbers comparatively few. I needed each of them to stand up and join the fight, less they all suffer. But one refused. She cried out that the conflict would solve nothing. She proclaimed that all icyene should lay down their spear and embrace a peaceful approach. Her words were...enticing. I wanted to follow them myself. I would have loved little more than for conflict to end and peace to flourish.
But I knew better. I knew inaction would lead to the destruction of my people. I had to show the icyene what they faced if they did not fight. I had to show them how the enemy would show no mercy...just as I had to show no mercy. I will not forget that...feeling. that horrible stretching sensation followed by that terrible, sudden, snap. Feathers and tendons falling around me like some horrible snowstorm.
It was...cruel, but I had no choice. That act reminded the icyene why they were fighting, what they were fighting, and it reminded them that everyone must do their duty. A moment of cruelty, for decades of prosperity. A fair, if unsightly, trade.

P:Thats not how Garlandia sees it
SARADOMIN:No. I imagine not. She will only see the barbarism and the cruelty, but the lesson was, ultimately, not for her.

28-Jun-2020 14:26:32 - Last edited on 28-Jun-2020 14:29:43 by Scombridus

Sep

2012

Giras

Posts: 2,399 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Padomenes just put forth the most disingenuous arguments I've ever seen on the RS forums. Trying to portray Zamorak as wholly evil and selfish while Saradomin as a hero, laughable.

We've seen what happens when their backs are up against the wall. Given the choice when facing death, Zamorak has always chosen the path that he saw would benefit his people.
1. He tried to do a suicide attack with the Stone of Jas rather than allow Saradomin to beat him and go on to genocide the Mahjarrat.
2. When he thought he was going to die against Zaros he chose to sacrifice his own essence to empower the mahjarrat rather than take a potshot at the Zarosians out of spite.

Both times when facing a stressful situation, Zamorak has shown himself to be a hero at heart while it would be all too easy to justify an evil and spiteful option as Pedomenes trying to paint him as.

Now let's see how Saradomin stacks up when under pressure?

The moment he was told no even once by the Naragi, he blows up a major population center and sends his armies after the fleeing civilians.

During Sliske's endgame, Zaros had Saradomin's daughter in custody. Now when he was presented with the selfish choice and the self-sacrificing one, Saradomin chose to be selfish. While Zaros wasn't such an evil figure, Saradomin thought he was. Meaning that Saradomin chose to give the stone to someone he'd thought was nothing but malevolent and would cause untold levels of harm.

A hero such as King Arthur would've made the selfless choice to sacrifice his own happiness and that of his family for the betterment of all. When it came down to it, Saradomin was willing to let countless innocents suffer in order to avoid making the same sacrifice he made countless numbers of his own followers make.

When it comes down to it, Zamorak would lay down his life for your freedom, while Saradomin would sacrifice yours and countless others when it suits him. Saradomin WANTS to be a legendary hero, but he's just a selfish tyrant.

I'm no one's servant!

Good. Never let anyone think differently

.

03-Jul-2020 23:48:16

Forums

Let's talk about Armadyl.