RuneScape Forum Archive | Let's talk about Armadyl.

Padomenes

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Also I think its possible that the 'impose adversity' part, unless it involves shattering structures of power/laws in place kind of contradicts the whole premise of 'chaos'?

You create a structure or laws where certain kinds of individuals rise to the top, that's still 'lawful'. Being a 'pushover' is part of 'being lawful'.

If you are chaotic you’re meant to be a destroyer or subverter of authority everywhere and possibly even do it to ‘natural authority/order’.

All this evidence seems to put Zamorak 'far away' from being the 'chaos god' they claim him to be, the 'chaos elemental' if it rose to take his place would be a 'better fit'. Seren would also be a better fit for one if she took his place and Zamorakians 'worshiped' her as the new 'chaos god(dess)'.

He just seems like a dictator so far that wants to seize power and ensure a 'structure of laws' that only enables 'the powerful who will create authoritarian structures' to get in power, through 'full circle revolutions'. Zamorak wants to use conflict to violently impose his own laws/order and kill, assassinate or enslave dissidents. 100% lawful and pro-authority, just comes in conflict with other ‘lawful gods’ like Saradomin or Armadyl.

Wants an 'empire' and will try to 'burn the ladder of power' then teach others to do the same, but with 'openly violent authority'.

Little different from the 2nd age Zarosians who said "If you cannot survive in our structure of laws and depend on operating outside of it you are weak, low status and inferior."

Bandos seems to fit his position well, so do Armadyl or Saradomin but Zamorak seems to be the 'least chaotic' and the one most obsessed with 'pushing authority on others' rather than 'messing up all authority and structures'. If he was 'for chaos' he would have been more like 'the joker' or 'bane'.

17-May-2020 08:45:20 - Last edited on 17-May-2020 20:18:13 by Padomenes

Padomenes

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He is not even a 'chaos god'.

What happens then if ‘chaos’ clashes with and disrupts ‘adversity’ or it topples the rule of someone ‘strong’ in Zamorak’s eyes?

17-May-2020 20:22:59 - Last edited on 18-May-2020 03:49:03 by Padomenes

Deltaslug

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Another reason to bring Bandos into the Saradomin/Aramdyl was that it prevented Bandos from "siding" with Zamorak ... or at least being a wildcard (ie a 3 way fight instead a 3 v1 ... ) ... or at least aiming Bandos' forces at someone other than their own followers.

18-May-2020 02:38:28

Deltaslug

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I wouldn't put it past Bandos to take the "alliance" in stride as well.
Option A: Side with Zamorak to have an "even" fight with Saradomin and Armadyl
Option B: Side with Sara and Arma and have an "easy win"
Bandos did have a tendency to only fight a battle he was confident he'd win. So he'd still get a win, even if he didn't get 100% of the glory
After that, he may have guessed that once Zammy was dead/defeated, since he didn't really care about his own followers that much, he could just go to war against Sara/Arma right afterwards.
The "weak hummies" and "cowardly birds" would have been worn out from an age long fight against Zamorak, and while he might have guessed his allies were either naive enough to trust him or smart enough to prepare for him, he'd probably be able to have a fun time taking on one or both of them afterwards.

18-May-2020 02:47:44

A Mighty

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Deltaslug said :

Bandos did have a tendency to only fight a battle he was confident he'd win. So he'd still get a win, even if he didn't get 100% of the glory
After that, he may have guessed that once Zammy was dead/defeated, since he didn't really care about his own followers that much, he could just go to war against Sara/Arma right afterwards.
The "weak hummies" and "cowardly birds" would have been worn out from an age long fight against Zamorak, and while he might have guessed his allies were either naive enough to trust him or smart enough to prepare for him, he'd probably be able to have a fun time taking on one or both of them afterwards.

I don't think this is true. Bandos would rather have endless combat than "victory". The battle itself was the victory for him. Thus, he would rather have four major gods and their forces duking it out than just three.

To those cursed by war and pest, Come into the light of Armadyl and rest. This is the law of Armadyl.

18-May-2020 05:21:34

Kimi Mela

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I don't think I'm going to convince you, Talonstalker, but you're clearly not thinking about this issue in terms of real-life morality. You can play at being a Zamorakian, that's fine, but you've basically created a whole thread just to dunk on a pretty morally upstanding god, and you speak as though you're objectively correct about this stuff. You're giving people a one-sided, skewed view of one of the nicest gods, and yet you admit you don't know some aspects of the lore that I bring up in this discussion. If all you really want is to discuss Armadyl, then that's fine, but that isn't what you've done with this thread, so I'm objecting. I just wish that people clicking on this thread could see what I said right away instead of needing to flip through a few pages, because what you've outlined in the opening isn't the truth.

24-May-2020 04:58:06

Jul

2013

Derack

Posts: 3,066 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Kimi Mela said :
-

Most goody good shoes rejected His message.

Talon: Armadyl isn't really that much of a moral good god.

Goody goof shoes: Shut up!

they hated Talonstalker because He told them the truth.

You saying like i burned a entire continent with my thread.

Some joking aside.

No, i don't believe it nor buy it. Armadyl isn't that much of a upstanding god, i just put some proper points and facts to prove my point's.

Is it a one sided view? Perhaps.

Nice (good) god's don't arm their followers and yeet them into a war, any kind of war.

If he really wanted peace he should have done everything in his power to see reason, know who was who, for what they fight and why on his own. Not by asking others. Was it so hard for him to just to stop and think for a while? The damn war lasted thousands of years, how many have died because of his incompetence? While he just preaches about peace and equality while following Saradomin like a pet.

Does Arma, Sara and Seren have a high moral ground? Yes they have. But does that mean they are right or just, about how they do it? And can just preach about it without any proper
(self)conscience? Perhaps they are, but they just keep going on with it.
The problem i have with such believes is; They mostly act like spilling blood and piling up bodies in the name of "insert; something good" is righteos and noble and call it for the greater good. Yet, lable and sweep beliefs like Zaros and Zamo mostly as false wrong thinking.

"I just wish that people clicking on this thread could see what I said right away instead of needing to flip through a few pages, because what you've outlined in the opening isn't the truth."

Kinda arrogant of you isn't it? Yet, you said in a post i made a few good points.

What i posted has words of truth, and i refuse to believe all to be wrong.

Edit: Plumbing and fixes.

"If you believe you can distance yourself from the harm you cause, you're deluding yourself. You're not some mindless tool. You're accountable. Your actions will catch up with you eventually." -Jedi Master Jun Seros; Swtor Bounty Hunter storyline.

26-May-2020 20:29:27 - Last edited on 27-May-2020 21:29:46 by Derack

Jul

2013

Derack

Posts: 3,066 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Padomenes said :
Derack said :
Padomenes said :
- - The Temple Knights were and you for a large amount of infernal speaking ones later on.

How do you explain the Zamorakian afterlife then or the way Drakan handled Morytania and Zemouregal did New Varrock?

‘Disorder’ and ‘Anarchy’ are not necessarily violent either and just requires defiance of any authority or norm, but Zamorak seems to support others using violence to enforce ‘unstable dictatorships’ in a neverending cycle of ‘full circle revolutions’ until the ladder of power is burnt for good? Also Robes of Subjugation lore + paranoia?

The only way this can end is if the ones who rise deal with it through mind control, brainwashing, the Drakan way or by turning their subjects into zombies in practice.

P: Where do the followers of Zamorak go?
I: Our afterlives are shaped by the souls of those who travel them. The followers of Zamorak are creatures of chaos and conflict. Theirs is a world filled with constant power plays and courtly intrigue. A great throne room with an empty throne. But those who claim the throne soon learn there is another throne above them, and another above that. An eternal struggle for power amongst those who are no longer subject to death. I hear that they rather enjoy themselves.

I believe the throne is merley a symbol or a form of power. but so is knowledge.

Eh.. do you really wanne compare Zemouregal way of rule and believes to Zamorak? Yes, i know of Lamistard's memory and all.

Zemo and Drakan seem to rule and run the show on their own way and beliefs.
We have Daquarius, not a ruler, but, if he was i'm pretty sure his kingdom would be more.. progressive in a for all society.

No doubt from me, Zamo is paranoid about betrayel. But, that is to be expected from his effects of rebellion. Keep in mind the robes gave power to those that were loyal.

"If you believe you can distance yourself from the harm you cause, you're deluding yourself. You're not some mindless tool. You're accountable. Your actions will catch up with you eventually." -Jedi Master Jun Seros; Swtor Bounty Hunter storyline.

26-May-2020 21:03:58 - Last edited on 26-May-2020 21:05:15 by Derack

Padomenes

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Here is an analogy to use, gladiators lived a lifestyle of 'strength through adversity' in the sense Zamorak wants but they were still slaves or under a power structure and authority. They were not 'chaotic' and 'free' just because they were made to struggle.

Zamorak wants to be a sort of dictator with struggling subjects, that is how he differs from the others. In a nutshell he wants to be that cringe playground bully who attacks 'the weak' to build a structure of power to define success for others. While justifying it with "Well, they were not strong enough to challenge me so I am boss."

Bandos on the other hand just wants to be a mercenary company boss.

Zamorak is 'be strong enough to take me on or else you are now my slave if I want'.

Like woah he's clearly bad in his intentions, we need to make sure he loses the next world event.

Saradomin is basically anti-authority as in being against power structures created by those who say 'I can control you because I'm wrong', supports the rights of those without power and is about justice.

Saradomin believes in his followers defying purely strength based authority as seen with the myreque and establishing a scenario where everybody is free from being controlled by those 'with the power to do so'.

Everybody is free to do define success as they please without somebody who has the power creating a method of control to stop you under Saradomin, regardless of power level or 'strength'.

31-May-2020 16:54:01 - Last edited on 31-May-2020 19:36:30 by Padomenes

Kimi Mela

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The Myreque weren't necessarily Saradominist though, just opponents of the vampyres. Their ideals were borne out of their environment, not the god they follow. Saradomin himself is actually quite the opposite of what you've described. Saradomin believes in one thing: himself. He trusts nobody other than himself with authority, and does not take suggestions from others. He sees himself as the big boss. But of course, unlike Zamorak, he sees himself as the boss because of his wisdom and experience, not because he 's powerful. There's no doubt as to which of those two particular gods is the good guy. Armadyl is still the best though, because he is willing to talk about things and consider other perspectives, something which Saradomin has proven many times he, himself, is incapable of.

Now I'm going to stop bumping this stupid thread because it's becoming clear Talon has no interest in intelligent conversation.

01-Jun-2020 19:59:33 - Last edited on 01-Jun-2020 20:01:24 by Kimi Mela

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