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Virsmas

Virsmas

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The only reason order collapsed when Saradomin was gone was because the military left with him, there was no one there to stop evil people from doing evil things.

Falador on the other hand is very well protected, Saradominists there are allowed to prosper, Varrock is doing badly because King Roald is dumb and it needs more order.

MORE ORDER MORE ORDER FOR EVERYONE!

30-Dec-2013 18:12:26

Unicornz pwn
Dec Member 2023

Unicornz pwn

Posts: 3,009 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Virsmas said :
The only reason order collapsed when Saradomin was gone was because the military left with him, there was no one there to stop evil people from doing evil things.

Falador on the other hand is very well protected, Saradominists there are allowed to prosper, Varrock is doing badly because King Roald is dumb and it needs more order.

MORE ORDER MORE ORDER FOR EVERYONE!
Don't troll and I might give you an honorable mention. Now shoo-shoo, away with you.
"Ego Te Provoco."

The Hooded Zarosian

Lorehound Extraordinaire

30-Dec-2013 18:15:59

Unicornz pwn
Dec Member 2023

Unicornz pwn

Posts: 3,009 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Nelfarion44 said :
Guys, back on topic! This proves that Saradomin is wrong in his reasoning, as order always fails. But for that mention....


RAW*
The problem is not order in itself, the problem is Saradomin's artificial order he imposes. They are not prepared for when the rug is going to be pulled out from under them. As stated, order can be achieved in many ways, it's how you go about doing it. The key to order is not destroying all chaos, that is impossible. The key is to be prepared for when chaos does strike as Zamorak teaches or through self control and personal choice as Zaros teaches.
"Ego Te Provoco."

The Hooded Zarosian

Lorehound Extraordinaire

30-Dec-2013 18:52:50 - Last edited on 08-Oct-2015 07:23:39 by Unicornz pwn

Sarrev

Sarrev

Posts: 1,735 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
You're right in a sense, but I thought it'd be good to mention that when this natural chaos happens, the only way you are able to handle it is with imposing order onto it. A fire breaks out in a village, the villagers form up and try and take down the fire. Someone attacks the city, the city builds an army. All upgrades from the previous anarchy. It's true that Saradomin can never achieve true order, because for order to prevail it needs chaos to curtail. If there is no chaos, then everything I guess shrivels up. That's if the natural state of the Runescape universe is even chaos, and not some elaborate plan from some Elder god. In the end it just proves Guthix's philosophy of balance more than anything. Although we don't know how much power all the artefacts would give a god. Assuming that Zaros would be able to become fate himself, other gods might have the same opportunity which is a scary thought indeed.

To sum up what I'm saying you can NOT have order without chaos because that would break any forms of logic that exists. Order derives from chaos and then is imposed on it by mainly intelligent species. So I believe if that is truly Saradomin's goal he will never succeed. Chaos and Order are so fundamentally entwined that it is impossible to split the two. Remove one and there is no more existence, at least any existence we'd want to be in.

... or Saradomin is just a hypocrite filled with hot-air.

30-Dec-2013 19:27:20 - Last edited on 30-Dec-2013 19:37:24 by Sarrev

Virsmas

Virsmas

Posts: 3,239 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Unicornz pwn said :
Virsmas said :
The only reason order collapsed when Saradomin was gone was because the military left with him, there was no one there to stop evil people from doing evil things.

Falador on the other hand is very well protected, Saradominists there are allowed to prosper, Varrock is doing badly because King Roald is dumb and it needs more order.

MORE ORDER MORE ORDER FOR EVERYONE!
Don't troll and I might give you an honorable mention. Now shoo-shoo, away with you.

This is a serious response posted in a troll like fashion.

I demand a response! *slams fist on table*

30-Dec-2013 19:50:47

Unicornz pwn
Dec Member 2023

Unicornz pwn

Posts: 3,009 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Sarrev said :
You're right in a sense, but I thought it'd be good to mention that when this natural chaos happens, the only way you are able to handle it is with imposing order onto it. A fire breaks out in a village, the villagers form up and try and take down the fire. Someone attacks the city, the city builds an army. All upgrades from the previous anarchy. It's true that Saradomin can never achieve true order, because for order to prevail it needs chaos to curtail. If there is no chaos, then everything I guess shrivels up. That's if the natural state of the Runescape universe is even chaos, and not some elaborate plan from some Elder god. In the end it just proves Guthix's philosophy of balance more than anything. Although we don't know how much power all the artefacts would give a god. Assuming that Zaros would be able to become fate himself, other gods might have the same opportunity which is a scary thought indeed.

To sum up what I'm saying you can NOT have order without chaos because that would break any forms of logic that exists. Order derives from chaos and then is imposed on it by mainly intelligent species. So I believe if that is truly Saradomin's goal he will never succeed. Chaos and Order are so fundamentally entwined that it is impossible to split the two. Remove one and there is no more existence, at least any existence we'd want to be in.

... or Saradomin is just a hypocrite filled with hot-air.
I am not saying order is bad, order is needed. The artificial order Saradomin imposes is bad as it leaves people unprepared for when chaos does strike. What you are saying about stopping the chaos though preparation such as building an army is Zamorak's philosophy.

And Guthix's philosophy is just as flawed. You should try to stop chaos that arises, not let it fester and grow just because order was previously there, for the sake of balance.
"Ego Te Provoco."

The Hooded Zarosian

Lorehound Extraordinaire

30-Dec-2013 19:59:41

Unicornz pwn
Dec Member 2023

Unicornz pwn

Posts: 3,009 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Virsmas said :
Unicornz pwn said :
Virsmas said :
The only reason order collapsed when Saradomin was gone was because the military left with him, there was no one there to stop evil people from doing evil things.

Falador on the other hand is very well protected, Saradominists there are allowed to prosper, Varrock is doing badly because King Roald is dumb and it needs more order.

MORE ORDER MORE ORDER FOR EVERYONE!
Don't troll and I might give you an honorable mention. Now shoo-shoo, away with you.

This is a serious response posted in a troll like fashion.

I demand a response! *slams fist on table*
I think several of my previous posts can answer what ever point you were trying to make.

And who cares if Saradomin took the military? Did he do anything to prepare the Icyene for life after he left? No he just up and left to go fight some crusade to prove that his crown deserves to be his. Once again, that suited him just fine.
"Ego Te Provoco."

The Hooded Zarosian

Lorehound Extraordinaire

30-Dec-2013 20:03:47

Sarrev

Sarrev

Posts: 1,735 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
In essence balance can be considered another type of order as well. I doubt Guthix would of approved of that sort of sequence-like chaos/order balance. It's more to do with the understanding that both chaos and order is both good and bad. When you try to impose order you lead yourself to greater stagnation. When you allow too much chaos to reign you will eventually be destroyed. The only problem I have with Zammy is that he creates this artificial heirarchy of him being God and him having worshippers. I always felt that was more of a Bandos thing. I'd rather see him disavow the heirarchy that he has and move to a more freedom based initiative. You can see how that can unknowingly affect the way his followers act, like the black knights and the slaves they had. It all stinks like Bandosian thinking. Guthix knew it first, then Zaros, no longer should it be viable to just be a god and stand up above everyone else. The "guiding hand" principle is starting to seem more appropriate for the Gods.

30-Dec-2013 20:05:16 - Last edited on 30-Dec-2013 20:11:56 by Sarrev

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