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Viable place for Soul Altar?

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Aquamancer
May Member 2011

Aquamancer

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Personally, I think Soul Altar should be released with Guthixian content, or content that specifically features Anima Mundi. The reason for my opinion is based on the soul runes' appearance and the motifs attributed to Guthix.

The symbol in the runes is a stylizised butterfly: it shows more clearly in RSC's version of soul runes than in modern-day RuneScape, but it is a butterfly. Butterflies are associated with souls in multiple cultures: Mesoamericans considered butterflies to be the reincarnations of the souls of dead warriors, a butterfly was seen in Japan as the personification of a person's soul, the Enlightenment-era French works list butterflies as a symbol for the soul, Romans believed that the soul left the body through the mouth in the form of a butterfly, and the ancient Greek word for butterfly is "psyche", which means soul. Therefore, it makes a lot of sense for the soul runes to feature a butterfly as their symbol.

The only significant entity in RuneScape to have a butterfly motif is Guthix: Guthix was described years ago to have arrived on Gielinor in the shape of a butterfly, the key to his resting place is in the shape of a buttefly, Guthixian butterflies manifested after his death, butterfly catcher was a profession in Naragun, his homeworld, and based on Guthix's dialogue in his memories, her daughter, Aagi, loved catching butterflies: even Kami, Guthix's memory of Aagi, wears a butterfly belt buckle and wisps merging out and into her body briefly take the form of a buttefly. Therefore, we have pretty solid example of Guthix being tied with butterflies.

So, butterflies are associated with souls in many cultures, and Guthix had butterfly motif and was in touch with Anima Mundi, the soul of the world, better than any of the other gods. Therefore, it makes sense to tie the Soul Altar into Guthixian content.

26-Mar-2016 22:20:11

Half Centaur
Jun Member 2010

Half Centaur

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Is it weird that I don't find Menaphos and the Underworld mutually exclusive?


Thus far we've only been through entrances that Death has wanted us to go through- but we know that Amascut and Icthlarin have access as well, so it's reasonable to think that they've got a local access portal- perhaps a naturally occurring one at that.

Also- if this is also a source of soul energy, than Amascut would definitely be after it- and we know her claws are wound tight around Menaphos... "We call it being a hero"
"That's interesting, we call it utter stupidity"

26-Mar-2016 23:01:07

Aig123
Jun Member 2019

Aig123

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The more important altars have a relevant placement.
Blood altar near vampyres, death altar near a civil war, cosmic altar on a moon and so on.

I feel they really missed an opportunity by not linking Nomad with the Soul altar, but his story hasn't ended so there is still a chance.

The desert quest line can work as well.
Its relevant with Icthlarin's deity role and mummification, along with the immense casualties from Tumeken's death, the GWD2 and the Kharid-Ib.

The Elemental series idea, however, sounds like shoehorning. Vitruvius's apprentice, literally called 'idiot', happens to get trap himself in a metal bar and everyone yells 'Soul Altar'.
The never-released 'life rune' from classic sounds more appropriate for such a quest line.

On a side note, I distinctly remember years ago, that the ZMI altar could be the broken form of the Soul altar. And we would need a spirit realm portal to fix it. Any thoughts?

28-Mar-2016 19:46:04

Balustan

Balustan

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Aig123 said :
The more important altars have a relevant placement.
Blood altar near vampyres, death altar near a civil war, cosmic altar on a moon and so on.

I feel they really missed an opportunity by not linking Nomad with the Soul altar, but his story hasn't ended so there is still a chance.

The desert quest line can work as well.
Its relevant with Icthlarin's deity role and mummification, along with the immense casualties from Tumeken's death, the GWD2 and the Kharid-Ib.

The Elemental series idea, however, sounds like shoehorning. Vitruvius's apprentice, literally called 'idiot', happens to get trap himself in a metal bar and everyone yells 'Soul Altar'.
The never-released 'life rune' from classic sounds more appropriate for such a quest line.

On a side note, I distinctly remember years ago, that the ZMI altar could be the broken form of the Soul altar. And we would need a spirit realm portal to fix it. Any thoughts?

ZMI has lore. I believe Baba Yaga tells you it when you gain access. It's it's own thing.

As for life I think Blood if misnamed life as it is the only rune that doesn't fit in a set easily.

Air, Earth, Fire, Water - Elemental
Mind, Body, Soul - Things that make up a being.
Nature, Law and Chaos - Laws of the universe runes like the laws of physics in our world.
Cosmic and Astral - These I'm not too sure about how I'd classify them.
Leaving Death and Blood but what if it's Death and Life?
Lewis
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Quester
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Scottish

29-Mar-2016 04:13:34

Aquamancer
May Member 2011

Aquamancer

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Balustan said :
As for life I think Blood if misnamed life as it is the only rune that doesn't fit in a set easily.

Air, Earth, Fire, Water - Elemental
Mind, Body, Soul - Things that make up a being.
Nature, Law and Chaos - Laws of the universe runes like the laws of physics in our world.
Cosmic and Astral - These I'm not too sure about how I'd classify them.
Leaving Death and Blood but what if it's Death and Life?

I find that unlikely. In symbolism, blood is important for life, as it gives and maintains life, but is not synonymous with life, just as gasoline gives and brings fire, but is not fire. Even then, blood is only important for animals, whereas life covers everything that lives: animals, plants, fungi, bacteria, magical creatures, everything.

This is in fact adressed in the game: when resurrecting Iban, Kardia notes that while blood is the giver of life force, she also needs to recreate the shadow, "the parts of a man that cannot be seen or touched: Those intangible things, the essence of life itself".

If we go by this, blood is the element that ties the elements that make a being (mind, body and soul) with the elements relating to the state of a being (death and life). Therefore, the runic elements could be categorised as such:

Air, Water, Earth and Fire: Primary elements
Mind, Body and Soul: Things that make a being
Cosmic and Astral: Aspects of the universe
Chaos, Nature and Law: Forces of the universe
Life and Death: Things that determine the state of a being
Blood: Things that tie the things that make a being with the things that determine the state of a being

29-Mar-2016 13:35:18

Balustan

Balustan

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Aquamancer said :
Balustan said :
As for life I think Blood if misnamed life as it is the only rune that doesn't fit in a set easily.

Air, Earth, Fire, Water - Elemental
Mind, Body, Soul - Things that make up a being.
Nature, Law and Chaos - Laws of the universe runes like the laws of physics in our world.
Cosmic and Astral - These I'm not too sure about how I'd classify them.
Leaving Death and Blood but what if it's Death and Life?

I find that unlikely. In symbolism, blood is important for life, as it gives and maintains life, but is not synonymous with life, just as gasoline gives and brings fire, but is not fire. Even then, blood is only important for animals, whereas life covers everything that lives: animals, plants, fungi, bacteria, magical creatures, everything.

This is in fact adressed in the game: when resurrecting Iban, Kardia notes that while blood is the giver of life force, she also needs to recreate the shadow, "the parts of a man that cannot be seen or touched: Those intangible things, the essence of life itself".

If we go by this, blood is the element that ties the elements that make a being (mind, body and soul) with the elements relating to the state of a being (death and life). Therefore, the runic elements could be categorised as such:

Air, Water, Earth and Fire: Primary elements
Mind, Body and Soul: Things that make a being
Cosmic and Astral: Aspects of the universe
Chaos, Nature and Law: Forces of the universe
Life and Death: Things that determine the state of a being
Blood: Things that tie the things that make a being with the things that determine the state of a being

Only if you think another rune will ever be brought into the game. I don't think they will ever bring in another rune and as such blood being misnamed life makes much more sense.

Though Idk about magical creatures living and dying as such.
Lewis
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Quester
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Scottish

29-Mar-2016 17:53:31

Healthorg

Healthorg

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On the note about the Soul runes being butterfly wings:
RSC's soul runes do indeed look like butterfly wings, but the soul runes of today look like angel wings. The difference is far too marked to be an accidental change of design.

Though I agree with the idea of a Soul Altar being tied to the Anima Mundi in some way, the butterfly motif is anecdotal at best. I do love the post on it, however, it is very compelling and moving. (Unrelated note: the Nature rune is an abominable and unrecognizable wreath of vines. RSC's depiction was a lot more coherent.)

However, I am a long-time fan of the Elemental Workshop series and it would only make sense if the Soul Altar were down in that workshop, in some shape or form. (Some people mentioned having a secondary portal or rift leading to it.)

And the writing team has only improved in quality since the last iteration. There could certainly be quite a bit of research material locked down in the Soul Room, even remnants of everything the Elemental Workshop series had been hinting at.

But I am also fond of the Soul Altar being somewhere in Menaphos, though that would be an issue when it came to V traveling the world and making temples. The Desert Pantheon may have already been present in the area, after all. (Or, at least, Tumeken.)

The only way I can see it going if V were to have made ALL of the altars is that Tumeken was in a dreaming state, creating his beloved pantheon, and Menaphos had not settled into the place it is now. Because I'm sure we would have seen some evidence of V and the Menaphites duking it out.

03-Apr-2016 14:31:26 - Last edited on 03-Apr-2016 14:35:03 by Healthorg

Healthorg

Healthorg

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(Since I accidentally quoted myself mid-edit: )

The Anima Mundi idea is also very fitting if the Soul Altar were to be found near Menaphos. Given that the Heart of Gielinor is in the same area and that it would, by design, have to be a big part of the Anima Mundi, given the Soul-worship in Ancient Egypt and Gielinor, and given that Menaphos is currently the seat of power for a destructive soul devouring demi-goddess.

Overall, I just enjoy the idea of a single concept being pervasive enough to be found all over the world. Hell, why not both Menaphos and the Elemental Workshop?

03-Apr-2016 14:32:21 - Last edited on 03-Apr-2016 14:37:48 by Healthorg

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