RuneScape Forum Archive | Saradomin, Seren, or Armadyl?

Padomenes

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Giras said :
Wasps and mosquitoes aren't sentient. Sentient means they would be capable of reason. I've already explained in my original post. If they were not willing to outright negotiate, then it implies a foreign system of values. A hostile conquering state should be fought, but no sane person would go right to genocide of the whole species after initial negotiations break down. It would be a simple matter to sue for peace once icyene victory became inevitable, many hostile states become more compliant when put in a position of weakness. It's obvious that Saradomin used fear and propaganda to fuel an extermination campaign the same as the ones he used on Gielinor. What happens if winning a war results in the extinction of a species or the actions required to win still caused them to die out? If they continued attacking and you kept destroying them in retaliation to eliminate the threat posed, how do you think that wouldn't lead to extinction? It was already written the god wars drove many species' to extinction in themselves, the point being if you have a god fighting alongside an army that it would be more lethal in offences launched:

http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Third_Age

26-Aug-2017 23:59:03 - Last edited on 27-Aug-2017 00:02:59 by Padomenes

Sep

2012

Giras

Posts: 2,399 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Padomenes said :
What if Saradomin's perception of the 'danger' from Zaros was different from that of Zamorak's(Such as belief he may return to power on Gielinor and rule again) but that he wanted neither? Considered that possibility?

The 'inquisition' it says was done to 'crack down on an insurrection' but of which ended as soon as the second battle of the salve concluded, in which a threat was defeated.

During the god wars some humans from the empire joined both either Saradomin or Zamorak?

The current model of Saradominist society does not include 'forced conversion' a

Why the hell would Saradomin specifically mention Zamorak as the only other subject in the same statement if not to draw a parallel? In either case, Saradomin was willing to condemn the universe to a terrible fate if it meant escaping personal sacrifice.

There was no insurrection, Aeonisig used it as an excuse to further saradominist power. This has shown that even in modern times, Saradominists would use force at any given excuse to do so. With all the parallels to knights templar and puritans, it is very obvious that forced conversions were a thing for Saradominists!

I'm no one's servant!

Good. Never let anyone think differently

.

27-Aug-2017 00:01:13

Padomenes

Posts: 3,662 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Giras said :
Padomenes said :
What if Saradomin's perception of the 'danger' from Zaros was different from that of Zamorak's(Such as belief he may return to power on Gielinor and rule again) but that he wanted neither? Considered that possibility?

The 'inquisition' it says was done to 'crack down on an insurrection' but of which ended as soon as the second battle of the salve concluded, in which a threat was defeated.

During the god wars some humans from the empire joined both either Saradomin or Zamorak?

The current model of Saradominist society does not include 'forced conversion' a

Why the hell would Saradomin specifically mention Zamorak as the only other subject in the same statement if not to draw a parallel? In either case, Saradomin was willing to condemn the universe to a terrible fate if it meant escaping personal sacrifice.

There was no insurrection, Aeonisig used it as an excuse to further saradominist power. This has shown that even in modern times, Saradominists would use force at any given excuse to do so. With all the parallels to knights templar and puritans, it is very obvious that forced conversions were a thing for Saradominists! What would you think if Saradomin may have believed that the universe being under Zaros's control was 'less bad then chaos', and did it out of that? Maybe Zaros persuaded him in some way to be 'calm' about whatever it was by telling his plans for the universe if he got the stone, and saying how its 'not so bad' according to Saradomin's views?

Regarding the inquisition, so here's the source: http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Inquisition_of_Saradomin

27-Aug-2017 00:04:41 - Last edited on 27-Aug-2017 00:06:52 by Padomenes

Sep

2012

Giras

Posts: 2,399 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Padomenes said :
Giras said :
Wasps and mosquitoes aren't sentient. Sentient means they would be capable of reason. I've already explained in my original post. If they were not willing to outright negotiate, then it implies a foreign system of values. A hostile conquering state should be fought, but no sane person would go right to genocide of the whole species after initial negotiations break down. It would be a simple matter to sue for peace once icyene victory became inevitable, many hostile states become more compliant when put in a position of weakness. It's obvious that Saradomin used fear and propaganda to fuel an extermination campaign the same as the ones he used on Gielinor. What happens if winning a war results in the extinction of a species or the actions required to win still caused them to die out? It was already written the god wars drove many species' to extinction in themselves, the point being if you have a god fighting alongside an army that it would be more lethal in offences launched:

http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Third_Age
God wars are destructive because multiple sides have gods running around flattening species. The other domina race did not have a god helping them. This was essentially a planned extermination by Saradomin and his forces on an essentially helpless target. Due to the fact that the other race had no gods to help them, it was essentially target practice for Saradomin. To say that Saradomin and his army had trouble with a race with no god representative to the point that extermination was the only option is complete and utter BS.

I'm no one's servant!

Good. Never let anyone think differently

.

27-Aug-2017 00:04:41

Padomenes

Posts: 3,662 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Giras said :
Padomenes said :
Giras said :
Wasps and mosquitoes aren't sentient. Sentient means they would be capable of reason. I've already explained in my original post. If they were not willing to outright negotiate, then it implies a foreign system of values. A hostile conquering state should be fought, but no sane person would go right to genocide of the whole species after initial negotiations break down. It would be a simple matter to sue for peace once icyene victory became inevitable, many hostile states become more compliant when put in a position of weakness. It's obvious that Saradomin used fear and propaganda to fuel an extermination campaign the same as the ones he used on Gielinor. What happens if winning a war results in the extinction of a species or the actions required to win still caused them to die out? It was already written the god wars drove many species' to extinction in themselves, the point being if you have a god fighting alongside an army that it would be more lethal in offences launched:

http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Third_Age
God wars are destructive because multiple sides have gods running around flattening species. The other domina race did not have a god helping them. This was essentially a planned extermination by Saradomin and his forces on an essentially helpless target. Due to the fact that the other race had no gods to help them, it was essentially target practice for Saradomin. To say that Saradomin and his army had trouble with a race with no god representative to the point that extermination was the only option is complete and utter BS. But what happens if continuing to retaliate in order to win against them, say by destroying their settlements in retaliation eventually lead to their extinction? 'The attack seems to be coming from over there, destroy that village so they can't be a threat' and repeated?

27-Aug-2017 00:05:31 - Last edited on 27-Aug-2017 00:09:41 by Padomenes

Sep

2012

Giras

Posts: 2,399 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Padomenes said :
But what happens if continuing to retaliate in order to win against them, say by destroying their settlements in retaliation eventually lead to their extinction?

If you like outlandish hypotheticals so much then how about this one? What if Saradomin was rejected by that species and Saradomin decided to lie to the icyene in order to use the icyene to exterminate them to sooth his own ego like he did with the Naragi?

I'm no one's servant!

Good. Never let anyone think differently

.

27-Aug-2017 00:12:35

Nov

2012

Summerleaf

Posts: 3,313 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Holy fun. Y'all just spammed this poor person's thread with all kinds of nonsense.

Op, just skim through this:

http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/History

and look at the actions taken by the Gods and decide for yourself.

27-Aug-2017 00:47:23

Padomenes

Posts: 3,662 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Giras said :
Padomenes said :
But what happens if continuing to retaliate in order to win against them, say by destroying their settlements in retaliation eventually lead to their extinction?

If you like outlandish hypotheticals so much then how about this one? What if Saradomin was rejected by that species and Saradomin decided to lie to the icyene in order to use the icyene to exterminate them to sooth his own ego like he did with the Naragi? I was saying the before sentence I mentioned was what I believe happened.

From what I can gather so you are implying that Saradomin is not different from Zaros, correct? But about the topic of how the society runs for those that are his own followers, somebody ought to ask Stu or a Mod in a more detailed manner again to confirm

But can I ask, if you are opposed to 'might is right/predatory behavior' just out of curiosity. What is the reason you're aligned with Zamorak, and perspectives on the godbook verse or Bilrach/Zemouregal's take from Mahjarrat Memories?

Zaros embodies that aspect but has less room to move around which in my opinion is significantly worse and far less flexible if things ever became a 'struggle'.

27-Aug-2017 02:01:47 - Last edited on 27-Aug-2017 02:35:52 by Padomenes

Nov

2018

Lord Pyro I

Posts: 4,255 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

@Padomenes Might is right equals Zamorak? Zamorak promotes chaos as a means of self-improvement, Genocide tends to get in the way of that goal. To put it simply "that which does not kill you can only make you stronger" is a perfectly reasonable philosophy. However in Saradomin's case it did kill them and didn't make anyone stronger and only served his own ego.

In this debate you have endlessly invented theories to try and explain away Saradomin's 2nd genocide of a sentient species.

So I have to ask. Is it because he's blue? Or because he wears white?

Essentially are you allowing his heroic appearance convince you to stand up for a figure responsible for countless deaths? "The greatest endeavors are achieved because of their selfless intent"

#WarIsComing

28-Aug-2017 20:33:55

Padomenes

Posts: 3,662 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Lord Pyro I said :
@Padomenes Might is right equals Zamorak? Zamorak promotes chaos as a means of self-improvement, Genocide tends to get in the way of that goal. To put it simply "that which does not kill you can only make you stronger" is a perfectly reasonable philosophy. However in Saradomin's case it did kill them and didn't make anyone stronger and only served his own ego.

In this debate you have endlessly invented theories to try and explain away Saradomin's 2nd genocide of a sentient species.

So I have to ask. Is it because he's blue? Or because he wears white?

Essentially are you allowing his heroic appearance convince you to stand up for a figure responsible for countless deaths? 'That which doesn't kill you' makes cracks in you that will eventually kill you. Saradomin's approach to stopping a 'dog-eat-dog' lifestyle seems the most realistic and current sources that say he opposes. I will try and look into it further to confirm.

Zaros supported 'might is right' like Zamorak but with laws in-place and some 'negotiation' so less flexible in that regard which is worse you could say. Since you could not act directly if somebody was 'preying' on others in society, a lawful system that supported predatorary mindsets = Zarosian Empire.

Not having the intention to does not equal 'genocide'. The war itself and those fighting could have simply drove them to extinction as a side-effect, and the beings were unwilling to negotiate. It's the same case that a serial killer needs the death penalty.

You are saying it's better if they didn't fight and Saradomin let the Icyene get killed off.

Bandos drove the Skavid race to near extinction and he didn't have the intention of 'genocide'.

28-Aug-2017 23:06:34 - Last edited on 29-Aug-2017 00:10:31 by Padomenes

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Saradomin, Seren, or Armadyl?