RuneScape Forum Archive | Am I a Saradominist?

NotFishing

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In both Fate of the Gods and Dishonor Among Thieves, you could have went in as a double agent, and sabotaged both of the gods you supposedly came to help.

I thought the way they handled this quest was... okay.

First off, the only reason you get involved was at the request of Kharshai, a neutral party. Then Zaros shows up and offers a way to save them. Zamorak shows up and warns not to trust Zaros. The mahjarrat agree to go to Freneskae because there is no other alternative. You go because you want to get to the bottom of this.

Once you arrive, Zemouregal kidnaps Kharshai. Now you have additional incentive to reach the meeting - to save the only mahjarrat who is unaffiliated with either side, and a potential ally to you.

Seren then saves you and gives you more insight into Zaros's plan. You now know that if Mah isn't stopped in some way, three gods (one of whom just saved your life and is known as a goddess of peace and compassion) and an entire race will die out. Would your character let that happen? Even if the answer is yes, you still need to get to the site, to stop the ritual if nothing else.

Once you do arrive... what can you do? Two gods and every mahjarrat are watching. If you turn on them, they can kill you. And Mah is stirring - last time she almost killed you. Zaros asks you to hold off her creations, and you do, purely out of self-preservation if nothing else.

Then Seren lets you enter Mah's head to soothe her. Again, this could be to stop her fron killing you all. It could be because you trust Seren, or you want Zaros and/or Zamorak to succeed. It could simply be to stop an endangered race from dying out. Maybe you just want to see what it is like inside an Elder God's head - learn how they think so you can face them in the future.

Once you get out, the ritual is already done and regardless of whether you got what you wanted or not, there is nothing more you can do. Beneath the gold, the Bitter Steel.

26-Nov-2016 15:05:21 - Last edited on 26-Nov-2016 15:46:39 by NotFishing

Hguoh

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Raxxess said :
Or they would have just sacrificed Kharsai and have been done with it? I can make up stuff that would have happened too lol

I'm not saying there can't be things that we can't change from happening I actually like quests like that. But I don't like them so blatantly sided in one direction. I don't see why that is such an issue? From the post itself it seems like a majority of the respected lore hounds agree on this.

So let them sacrifice the only Mahjarrat who doesn't favor either Zamorak or Zaros? A Mahjarrat who happens to be a friend of your due to the events of the Fremennik quest line and Koschei's Troubles miniquest? The one who was working to rid the Mahjarrat of their loyalties to Zamorak and Zaros?

What was that about wanting to help out Saradomin/work against Zaros and Zamorak?

But beyond that, sacrificing Kharshai wouldn't have solved their power drain problem (which was accelerated by their proximity to Mah and the marker), and they would have most likely still gone along with Zaros's plan (our presence there had little influence on that). Without us there, they'd either manage to complete the Ritual or get killed by Mah, potentially enabling her to go on a multi-plane rampage (wasn't it mentioned at some point during the quest's development that Mah was working toward doing her own Great Revision).

I don't think Saradomin would like it if you let a primordial being with a grudge against life and a desire to remake the universe got a hand on so much power.

Seriously, this thread makes about as much sense as an Armadylian, Bandosian, Brassican, Marimban, Godless, or Menaphite complaining that they haven't been able to 'really' support their gods in recent quests. If you are really that concerned about aiding your chosen god, then act as you believe they'd want you to in the scenarios you are given.

26-Nov-2016 18:04:25 - Last edited on 26-Nov-2016 18:05:58 by Hguoh

Solanumtinkr

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Without us there Mah would have ripped the planet asunder and all children of Mah present would have died. All of them.

Saved an entire planet? An entire species? Helped bump off and uncontrollable menace that would have destroyed the universe? Sounds like a typically busy day for a Saradominist to me. The purpose of adventure is to shine light into dark places,
Poke monsters with a sharp stick, Then steal anything that isn't nailed down!
To the Manor Born QFC 185-186-367-65788716

26-Nov-2016 18:47:36

Raxxess

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Hguoh said :
So let them sacrifice the only Mahjarrat who doesn't favor either Zamorak or Zaros? A Mahjarrat who happens to be a friend of your due to the events of the Fremennik quest line and Koschei's Troubles miniquest? The one who was working to rid the Mahjarrat of their loyalties to Zamorak and Zaros?

What was that about wanting to help out Saradomin/work against Zaros and Zamorak?

But beyond that, sacrificing Kharshai wouldn't have solved their power drain problem (which was accelerated by their proximity to Mah and the marker), and they would have most likely still gone along with Zaros's plan (our presence there had little influence on that). Without us there, they'd either manage to complete the Ritual or get killed by Mah, potentially enabling her to go on a multi-plane rampage (wasn't it mentioned at some point during the quest's development that Mah was working toward doing her own Great Revision).

I don't think Saradomin would like it if you let a primordial being with a grudge against life and a desire to remake the universe got a hand on so much power.

Seriously, this thread makes about as much sense as an Armadylian, Bandosian, Brassican, Marimban, Godless, or Menaphite complaining that they haven't been able to 'really' support their gods in recent quests. If you are really that concerned about aiding your chosen god, then act as you believe they'd want you to in the scenarios you are given.

I'm sorry I'm not sure what you are getting at in the slightest.

Someone made the argument that everything in CoM would have happened regardless if we were there or not, I stated if we weren't there they would have sacrificed Kharsai and gone on with the rituals until they died off or Zam or Zaros intervened.

Saradomin Lore clan

- Aegis of Saradomin

26-Nov-2016 19:01:06

Hguoh

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Raxxess said :
I'm sorry I'm not sure what you are getting at in the slightest.

Someone made the argument that everything in CoM would have happened regardless if we were there or not, I stated if we weren't there they would have sacrificed Kharsai and gone on with the rituals until they died off or Zam or Zaros intervened.

If they sacrificed Kharshai, they'd still have needed about one ritual per month (Kharshai tells us this in the quest).

We also were told in the quest that the Mahjarrat's proximity to Mah and her giant ritual marker were greatly accelerating the rate of the power drain.

So even if Zemouregal sacrificed Kharshai (remember, Zaros intervened both times this was brought up, not us, and even a good chunk of the Zamorakian Mahjarrat wanted to hear what he had to say) they'd still be experiencing such a notable power drain that Zaros's plan would still have been acted on (i.e. your conclusion is flawed).

The only influence we actually had on the quest was preventing Mah's nightmares from manifesting while the ritual was being performed (hence my comment of either completing the the ritual or getting killed and absorbed by Mah).

As for the rest of my comment, you made this thread complaining about the inability to support Saradomin, but are willing to suggest not aiding the one Mahjarrat actively working against both of the parties you don't like (Zaros and Zamorak). The one Mahjarrat literally every player character is friends with (hence why you'd help the Mahjarrat in the first place).

There's not always going to be a decision that will outright aid your god. Heck, most decisions probably wont. That's why the entire premise of this thread is flawed. Rather than complain about not being able to choose to do something that will explicitly aid your god, make your choices based on how you think your god would want you to or what will indirectly aid your god.

26-Nov-2016 19:35:07

Hazeel

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Solanumtinkr said :
Without us there Mah would have ripped the planet asunder and all children of Mah present would have died. All of them.

Saved an entire planet? An entire species? Helped bump off and uncontrollable menace that would have destroyed the universe? Sounds like a typically busy day for a Saradominist to me.

That's what we tried to do, but was it actually needed? Say we weren't there...we had no impact on the ritual itself or Zamorak and Zaros' meeting or battle (even though we SHOULD have intervened), or even the contract. So that would have gone on business as usual. By the time we subdued Mah, the ritual was done. Mah lost all of her power, which was why she was able to be killed so easily. She was a husk. So even if we hadn't been there, we should have lost her power regardless and Seren would have likely killed her anyway, seeing that she was in torment and had nothing left. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

26-Nov-2016 20:34:10

Solanumtinkr

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Both Zaros and Seren said it couldn't have been done without us there, That is would have been the end of them. Instead of turning to us as a neutral party they would have turned on each other, the journey into Mahs mind would not have happened and so neither sibling would have really understood the past as it realy was and would not have acted on that. Things would have been different.

Our being their to witness the pact was probably critical, for without that any attempt at a Ritual would have failed miserably. You assume the ritual would have gone ahead as it did, yet that is a very large assumption, more like quick sand than a foundation to based on a sound a theory.

EDIT:Wait! Wait! Wait! Wait! Wait! Wait! Wait! Wait! This guy is asking about if he was still a Saradominst for helping them. This is going off topic, so let's not, ok?

The purpose of adventure is to shine light into dark places,
Poke monsters with a sharp stick, Then steal anything that isn't nailed down!
To the Manor Born QFC 185-186-367-65788716

26-Nov-2016 20:52:45 - Last edited on 26-Nov-2016 20:57:28 by Solanumtinkr

Raxxess

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Hguoh said :
....

They didn't seem to believe him right off hand and if we weren't there I think things would be a lot different but that is neither here nor there and there is no point in arguing it.

As to the rest of it, that is fair and I never said anything against that. No the premise is entirely justified, this originated from a fun joke we had in the lore FC talking about how the next time a Saradominist sees Saradomin we will have awoken Zaros, empowered the mahjarrat, attempted to get the Stone for Zamorak, brought back Seren, essentially empowering everyone but him.

The underlying issue and if you can't see this then there is no point in responding to any of your posts is the disproportionate limelight that Zaros/Seren/Zamorak/ and the mahjarrat have gotten. If you like it that is great and I'm glad you are enjoying all of it, but for those that don't and would like to see the other stories out there particularly those that aren't finished or things that were promised and never fulfilled have every right to poke fun at and point out the entirely lopsided story arc.

Saradomin Lore clan

- Aegis of Saradomin

26-Nov-2016 22:58:38

Hguoh

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Raxxess said :
The underlying issue and if you can't see this then there is no point in responding to any of your posts is the disproportionate limelight that Zaros/Seren/Zamorak/ and the mahjarrat have gotten. If you like it that is great and I'm glad you are enjoying all of it, but for those that don't and would like to see the other stories out there particularly those that aren't finished or things that were promised and never fulfilled have every right to poke fun at and point out the entirely lopsided story arc.

Of course Zaros has gotten a ton of limelight. Jagex openly admitted (I believe it was in a podcast) that his goals are rather intrinsically tied to each of the 3 6th age story pillars (Sliske's Game, the Dragonkin, and the Elder Gods).

Zamorak had DAT and now CoM. Seren had TLW and now CoM (and if you want to pretend that the Elf quest line was all that much about Seren, then you lose your case about aiding Saradominists in the 5th age not really being about Saradomin).

And as for the Mahjarrat, they are god-like beings that interact with mortals on a regular basis. If they weren't so involved, people would complain (much like they did when Hazeel did nothing if you chose to revive him). And those characteristics of the Mahjarrat were established back in the 5th age.

For now though, the main body of the Mahjarrats' storyline has been finished (Sliske still has a part to play in the endgame). And while story threads have been left open, I expect that to be treated much like Morytania has been post RoB (to be expanded upon later).

Besides, does such a focus on certain characters really surprise anybody since Jagex decided to serialize quests last year?

26-Nov-2016 23:37:54

NotFishing

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I think it is worth noting that the Mahjarrat are also some of the few creatures who are unique and original to Runescape. Winged Angelic humans like the Icyenes are hardly original. Jagex could have a bias towards them because of that. Also, Zaros, Seren, and Zamorak tend to have the most depth compared to the other gods, and have strong followings.

As for the person claiming that the player's presence made no difference... that is false. The player entered and subdued Mah's nightmare. Without the player, the ritual would have been interrupted or worse.

Also, your presence at the ritual alongside Kharshai probably prevented the Mahjarrat from immediately killing him on sight, since you have already defeated or outwitted many of them, and possibly allied with others. Enough to make him them hold back and listen to what he had to say.

The player could have played a bigger role, though. They were treated like an errand boy. Must have been awkward for players who betrayed both Zamorak and Zaros, because literally no one except Kharshai wanted you there. And Kharshai is basically that shy kid who keeps to himself but gets picked on anyways for not fitting into a clique, while the Zamorakians are mostly the "2cool4school" kids (Hazeel and Bilrach fall out of this crowd though) and the Zarosians are the "nerrrrrrrrrrrds".

I honestly don't know how I went from the player's role in the quest to my own personal interpretation of Mahjarrat politics. Beneath the gold, the Bitter Steel.

27-Nov-2016 03:39:20 - Last edited on 27-Nov-2016 03:42:56 by NotFishing

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Am I a Saradominist?