RuneScape Forum Archive | Make Zarosians Great Again

Feb

2020

Questcaping

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This thread could seriously do with chilling out. I'm interested in discussing this topic -- it's not one that comes up often, and I've been fascinated by the desert bandits since Eblis told me their backstory in Desert Treasure. But please, can we do it without deriding other people? And without snapping up what's obviously bait, either -- no matter who posts it or why. Because that's a quick'n'easy way to turn what could have been some interesting discussion into hell.

Said my piece. Back on-topic.

I'm absolutely in favour of the desert bandits being able to live a decent life -- because everyone deserves to. And they've been vilified and cast out and narrowly avoided genocide like the rest of the Zarosians -- history has not been kind to them, so they'd do well to carve out a better future. Zaros won't do this for them, though; nor will Azzanadra. The days of the Zarosian empire have been and gone. They're all that's left of it, and they're clinging to the past as if someone can bring the past back and make them "great again". But the world is a very different place, and no one's ever going to be able to recreate history for them. The best way they could move forward would be by looking forward, rather than desperately clinging on to hope for the way things once were.

Questcaping the Finally Questcaped

Runefest attendee 2017-2019

13-Apr-2017 19:08:05

Feb

2020

Questcaping

Posts: 565 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I don't think "reclaiming their heritage" is a good thing -- precisely because I don't think their heritage is a good thing to reclaim. We don't know what position the desert bandits' ancestors were in, back in the "good old days" -- we don't know too much concrete about what life was like for humans back then, in fact. But we can make inferences -- I can only think of two "case studies" (please contribute if you have more, because I think this part of the lore is still a blind spot for me): Nex's fighters and Viggora. Now, Nex's fighters are pretty much only handled in relation to Nex herself -- we know from the recent Angel of Death lore books that she admired humanity and its flexibility, and that she learnt a lot from them. But that tells us practically nothing about how Zarosian society as a whole treated humans.

Viggora, on the other hand... I think his story shows exactly why humanity's place in Zarosian society isn't worth reclaiming.

From the Declaration of Viggora:

Original message details are unavailable.
I hoped that [becoming one of Zaros's generals] would let humans deal as equals with our lord's demon and Mahjarrat forces. But most of them still saw humans as nothing more than feeble apes. Even though humans had become our lord's most reliable strategists and engineers, the other generals treated me with disdain.
[...]
As I write this record, sitting alone in my ruined study, I realise that my lord's promises were empty. He promised to raise the status of humankind, but despite years of our loyal service he has done nothing. He is no longer my god.

This is the exact realisation that the desert bandits need to have.

Questcaping the Finally Questcaped

Runefest attendee 2017-2019

13-Apr-2017 19:09:00

Feb

2020

Questcaping

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I'll return to where I began, with Eblis's words in Desert Treasure:

Original message details are unavailable.
Ah, it all begun many generations ago, when our ancestors were the proud rulers of these lands... My ancestors lived far to the North of here, and our lands stretched from the sea in the East to the river Lum, and the mountain of ice. From coast to coast, North to South, our domain was absolute. Our god was kind to us, and blessed us with prosperity and happiness, and in return we were merciless to his enemies wherever we found them.

This is about as idealised as it gets. These people have been persecuted, nearly wiped out, and forced to live in some of the harshest terrain on the planet. Their current living situation is absolute shit. And when they're like that, of course they're going to idealise the way things were when they weren't like this -- regardless of how things actually were. Eblis is looking back,

But we have Viggora's first-hand account that humans were not treated as equals. And I believe what he's saying, because Zaros gave pretty much every race these empty promises -- gave them false hope. But Zarosian society, from what we know, gave them nothing but derision. They have no former glory to be restored to; a return to the way things were would just be a return to them being seen as "nothing more than feeble apes". Eblis speaks as if everyone in that empire was ruling it, from the lowliest to the elites -- but really, they'd be lowly either way.

So here they are, clinging onto empty hopes, when not even promises have been made this time round, let alone empty ones -- the opposite, in fact, with Zaros having outright stated that he does not intend to build another empire. And while I don't think we'd ever see this in-game -- they're incredibly set in their ways -- the optimal way forward for them is to finally move on.

Questcaping the Finally Questcaped

Runefest attendee 2017-2019

13-Apr-2017 19:09:51 - Last edited on 13-Apr-2017 19:11:38 by Questcaping

Feb

2020

Questcaping

Posts: 565 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

(Just a thought -- if they do ever move on, I could see them tagging along with Wahisietel, because he's in the middle of having the "Zaros doesn't care" realisation himself. Throw Kharshai in, too!! Everything's better with Kharshai!!!)

Anyway -- those are my thoughts here! Agree or disagree, however you wish -- but hoping at the very least that we can be chill about it

Questcaping the Finally Questcaped

Runefest attendee 2017-2019

13-Apr-2017 19:10:59

Raleirosen

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Questcaping said :
This thread could seriously do with chilling out. I'm interested in discussing this topic -- it's not one that comes up often, and I've been fascinated by the desert bandits since Eblis told me their backstory in Desert Treasure. But please, can we do it without deriding other people? And without snapping up what's obviously bait, either -- no matter who posts it or why. Because that's a quick'n'easy way to turn what could have been some interesting discussion into hell. You are vastly overestimating the level of hostility in this thread.
Questcaping said :
This is the exact realisation that the desert bandits need to have. Then they wouldn't be Zarosian anymore, would they? And if they're not Zarosian, there's no "homeland" for them to reclaim, no heritage or ancestry to preserve. They're just bandits in the desert. Back to square one.

If they wanted to live a better life, I doubt there's anything stopping them from deserting their little settlement and integrating into another society somewhere else, other than their self-inflicted xenophobia. So you're correct, it's more a matter of moving on than looking back. Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

13-Apr-2017 19:14:21 - Last edited on 13-Apr-2017 20:13:59 by Raleirosen

Feb

2020

Questcaping

Posts: 565 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Raleirosen said :
You are vastly overestimating the level of hostility in this thread.

Ahhh, maybe I am. But it's definitely there, and any hostility at all is unnecessary -- there certainly doesn't need to be any more of it bred. Maybe I just have a very low tolerance for it, heh.

Raleirosen said :
Then they wouldn't be Zarosian anymore, would they? And if they're not Zarosian, there's no "homeland" for them to reclaim, no heritage or ancestry to preserve. They're just bandits in the desert. Back to square one.

Yeah. And I think that's a good thing. I don't want them reclaiming any homeland or any heritage or preserving any ancestry -- that was precisely the point I was making. I want them to let go of the Zarosian history that they've built up into being such a good thing -- to move on and at least try to build a decent life of their own making rather than being stuck in the past.

Raleirosen said :
If they wanted to live a better life, I doubt there's anything stopping them from deserting their little settlement and integrating into another society somewhere else, other than their self-inflicted xenophobia.

I'm not sure if that'd work out though. That was the point I was making in the very first post I made on this thread, right back on page 1. If they're still seen as Zarosian, then... prejudices against Zarosians linger. Zarosians are still very much seen as evil by the people who remember them, and even if they announce that they're repenting, I get the feeling they'd be turned away from somewhere Falador in the same way that Zamorakians would.

On the other hand, if the rest of the world has forgotten, then great! Once they've moved on, then yeah, they can move to somewhere that isn't a shithole. Or at the very least, they could move to somewhere that either doesn't know or doesn't care.

Questcaping the Finally Questcaped

Runefest attendee 2017-2019

13-Apr-2017 19:33:30

Raleirosen

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Questcaping said :
Ahhh, maybe I am. But it's definitely there, and any hostility at all is unnecessary -- there certainly doesn't need to be any more of it bred. Maybe I just have a very low tolerance for it, heh. Well, I might be in the minority in thinking that a bit of hostility is all in good fun. So it probably is a tolerance thing.
Questcaping said :
On the other hand, if the rest of the world has forgotten, then great! Once they've moved on, then yeah, they can move to somewhere that isn't a shithole. Or at the very least, they could move to somewhere that either doesn't know or doesn't care. I think this is more accurate, that the rest of the world has forgotten; certainly the more rural areas of Misthalin/Asgarnia/Kandarin don't have any scholars trying to piece together the ancient history of the empire. The ostracization they currently face probably has to do with them being perceived as weird cultists (as well as any banditry they engage in), rather than anything to do with Zaros.

Besides, you can't tell a person's faith at a glance. Any prejudice the bandits might experience by those who do remember the empire (most likely in major cities) would be the result of a slip up. That's why I can't imagine thinking of them as victims. Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

13-Apr-2017 20:01:43 - Last edited on 14-Apr-2017 20:49:11 by Raleirosen

Maiden China

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Raleirosen said :
If they wanted to live a better life, I doubt there's anything stopping them from deserting their little settlement and integrating into another society somewhere else except they wouldn't be able to stop themselves from attacking anyone wearing anything that looks remotely saradominist or zamorakian

their self-imposed exile is as much for the safety of other people as it is for them Carn

14-Apr-2017 08:57:41

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15-Apr-2017 07:39:59

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15-Apr-2017 08:04:37

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Make Zarosians Great Again