RuneScape Forum Archive | The Void & Goddess of the Void

AttilaSquare

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Hguoh said :
...
continued...

Also, this model is helpful for explaining exactly what the Spirit Beast is up to. The Spirit Beast is seeking to 'straddle the planes,' to exist in two worlds at once. How are we ever able to do this, for example, to think in two different worlds at once? Well, I can think both mathematically and physically if I am thinking in terms of mathematical laws which adequately describe the phenomena of physics. Applying this to planar theory, if I possess a model/structure/interpretation/network-of-ideas which applies equally to two worlds, I can exist in two worlds simultaneously, by attuning myself to this.

This is what I think the Spirit Beast is attempting to do. What he's not doing is making use of the differing contents of the abyss to pass from one world to another (made possible, I think, by the imagination); instead, he's attempting to bypass the differences in content and seize upon a network of empty ideas (made possible, I think, by pure intellect) which grants him the ability to straddle the planes. Given the infinities, infinite-dimensionality, and infinite interpretability of the void, I think this is a possibility.

In his repeated and failed attempts to seize upon an empty network-of-ideas like this, the Spirit Beast hits upon networks-of-ideas which do make possible a spatially extended pocket of borrowed existence - I think this is what we experience in the End of Summer. This might explain why the characters there describe the voidal pocket as a 'barrier between ***linor and the Spirit Beast's realm,' since differences in ideas do divide the planes, but the Spirit Beast is close to creating a space for himself both in Gielinor and in his own realm. I haven't thought this out completely, but it is the direction I'm thinking.

28-Aug-2015 15:31:14 - Last edited on 28-Aug-2015 16:15:49 by AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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Dionysius said :
Hguoh said :
Wouldn't the biggest issue to this theory be that we know there's another side to the void? That's where the void pests come from: a dimension on the other side of the void, coming through the tear in reality Guthix made when he stabbed too deeply with the elder blade thus shattering it.

As the void has a one side (outside of the Abyss) and another (just before the Void Pest's home world) this in turn means that the Void is a defined area of the multiverse and not an undefined, infinite emptiness.

Besides, we know the void isn't empty. It's where the Spirit Beast (and thus Corporeal Beast) originally came from, carving away chunks of the Abyss and leaving Void in its wake on its way to Gielinor.

That whole Guthix x Elder Sword x Void fiasco is all very messy, I wish they'd work out a concrete version of events there.
agreed^ though I'm seeing what I can do with it...

28-Aug-2015 15:31:57 - Last edited on 28-Aug-2015 15:32:25 by AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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Hguoh said :
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Messy? I find that it actually tells a pretty big and interesting story. Imagine it like a bunch of bubbles all stuck together. You have our little bubble defined by the abyss, and within it lies our entire universe. Right next to it, you have the bubble containing the void pests' universe. Guthix took the elder sword and made a teeny tiny little hole in the film that comprises the shared wall of these two bubbles which allowed the two universes to leak into one another through said hole.

That film, would be the void. It's a place where nothing from within the universes can exist properly as it is in a different state than what lies within the universes (just as the edge of a bubble is made of a liquid, while the inside is a gas). It's denizens (ex: Spirit Beast) are of a different nature to us as they too are made up of a different stuff than what lies within our bubbles of reality. This grants them powers that appear supernatural to us as t
This makes sense as an interpretation, but I am disinclined to make use of these physical analogies and am instead favoring a phenomenological/psychological approach.

28-Aug-2015 15:37:10

Aug

2022

Kemtros

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If you give Zaros a light simulacrum: “But first I require your help to prolong this body. With every passing moment, more of my energy leaks from this wound. I cannot escape this body. If we do not succeed before I am fully rejected, then I will face the void.” This suggests that the void is equated with oblivion.

Aig123 said :
Here's a long-shot, but bare with me.

Assuming the sacred clay of the Primordial Realm is limited, then each imperfection is a massive waste of clay, putting the Elders at risk. After many cycles of discarding creations, surely the abyss would inevitably fill up, jam-packed with imperfect planets, like a trash can.

Well what if the abyss isn't a trash can, but a recycling bin?
If there is a hidden Elder, with power over the void/space-time, would it be her purpose to convert abyssal debris into sacred clay, or simply to expand the abyss for debris?

Bik is said to be the source of sacred clay, so a role like this would have to be closely associated with Bik in some way.

However, I do like your recycling bin idea. Mah represents potential, Bik is alteration, Wen marks ending, Ful starts new beginnings yet stays in the present, and Jas looks towards the future. To me, their processes go in a loop. Wen ends a cycle, and then Ful starts a new up, with Jas planning how it will proceed, Mah allowing the plan to be possible, and Bik shaping that potential, only for the matter to be ended by Wen. There's a step missing to this process, though. The void could represent the step between Wen and Ful's roles. Wen ends the cycle, the Elder Goddess of Void allows the Revision to directly contribute to Ful's role. In other words, Void Goddess' role is about how "every end is a new beginning."

28-Aug-2015 19:48:31

AttilaSquare

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Kemtros said :
If you give Zaros a light simulacrum: “But first I require your help to prolong this body. With every passing moment, more of my energy leaks from this wound. I cannot escape this body. If we do not succeed before I am fully rejected, then I will face the void.” This suggests that the void is equated with oblivion.
I have some thoughts on oblivion. I think it is very much related to the void, kind of the void taken in a particular way. But this will require some more theorizing on dimensional barriers and anima , which I hope to address in the future.

28-Aug-2015 20:26:27

AttilaSquare

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Kemtros said :
Bik is said to be the source of sacred clay, so a role like this would have to be closely associated with Bik in some way.

However, I do like your recycling bin idea. Mah represents potential, Bik is alteration, Wen marks ending, Ful starts new beginnings yet stays in the present, and Jas looks towards the future. To me, their processes go in a loop. Wen ends a cycle, and then Ful starts a new up, with Jas planning how it will proceed, Mah allowing the plan to be possible, and Bik shaping that potential, only for the matter to be ended by Wen. There's a step missing to this process, though. The void could represent the step between Wen and Ful's roles. Wen ends the cycle, the Elder Goddess of Void allows the Revision to directly contribute to Ful's role. In other words, Void Goddess' role is about how "every end is a new beginning."
I'm not sure if I follow all of this. There is some interesting discussion of their roles and relations to time here .

28-Aug-2015 20:29:06

Sep

2010

Lord Drakan

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I wonder for how long the Spirit Beast had been clawing away at the Abyss before reaching RuneScape; did it create all of the Void or just a part? And how long have void pests been using it for travel... And where do sacrificed Mahjarrat go, who are said to 'face the void'? Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. OSRS: POH ideas & RS3 minigames & achievement ideas !

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.

— Zanik

29-Aug-2015 19:16:09

AttilaSquare

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Lord Drakan said :
I wonder for how long the Spirit Beast had been clawing away at the Abyss before reaching RuneScape; did it create all of the Void or just a part? And how long have void pests been using it for travel... And where do sacrificed Mahjarrat go, who are said to 'face the void'?
Hey, Drakan!

I don't think he was really 'clawing at the abyss' as much as trying to think his way directly (on the model: emptily/conceptually) from his realm to Gielinor. Thus he was 'clawing away at' ('thinking away') what makes his world and Gielinor different.

I wouldn't have any idea how long ago the pests began to make use of conceptual/empty/voidal magics for their travel. Also, as I mentioned above, it's unclear to me how Guthix, by cutting into the void, exposed Gielinor to their attacks.

I think 'facing the void' simply means 'becoming nonexistent'/'ceasing to exist,' becoming only an empty idea. (Socrates' account of immortality at the end of the Pha (c) edo is like this: he will immortally be the idea of Socrates - whether there is an afterlife more than this he does not know.)

29-Aug-2015 19:28:29

A Mighty

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Profiled; will read when I have the time. Since this is an Attila thread, I expect to have my mind blown.

Edit: Read, and did not disappoint! Great thread as always, if only you had posted something similar before TLW we would have even more evidence of your genius

Speaking of which, do you have some long document on your hard drive that contains all of Planar Theory on it? If so, how long is it? And will we ever see another "full" planar theory thread like the one you posted 2 years ago?

To those cursed by war and pest, Come into the light of Armadyl and rest. This is the law of Armadyl.

30-Aug-2015 00:06:23 - Last edited on 01-Sep-2015 19:55:51 by A Mighty

AttilaSquare

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After thinking about this goddess a little longer, I realize Tolkien developed a character like this. Her name was Ungoliant...

Hey, Mighty! I'm glad you liked this.

I haven't stopped working on planar theory ever since, but I haven't pulled together anything that grand in a long time. I do hope to write another great thread like that one again, either this fall or next fall - I'm considering doing in a q&a format like this one, or with longer questions and answers like Thomas Aquinas's Summa Theologiae .

I might have a short follow-up thread to this one sooner, with some thoughts on anima , light, and shadow.

02-Sep-2015 04:08:50

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