RuneScape Forum Archive | The Void & Goddess of the Void

HeroicSnorro

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This is an excellently thought out theory. I quite like it! The idea of an elder goddess (or something of that stature) leading such an existence, in charge of the actual fabric of the universe itself, does not sound far-fetched to me.

This makes me wonder, though. How would the regular real and stable elder goddesses know of the one(s) beyond the realm of their very own existence? Heck, how would Zaros even know of this being if he refers to its existence in The Light Within?

Loved the read!

-=HeroicSnorro=- Sometimes, less is more.

27-Aug-2015 19:55:32

Jun

2019

Aig123

Posts: 147 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Here's a long-shot, but bare with me.

Assuming the sacred clay of the Primordial Realm is limited, then each imperfection is a massive waste of clay, putting the Elders at risk. After many cycles of discarding creations, surely the abyss would inevitably fill up, jam-packed with imperfect planets, like a trash can.

Well what if the abyss isn't a trash can, but a recycling bin?
If there is a hidden Elder, with power over the void/space-time, would it be her purpose to convert abyssal debris into sacred clay, or simply to expand the abyss for debris?

28-Aug-2015 05:20:49

Hguoh

Posts: 7,581 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Wouldn't the biggest issue to this theory be that we know there's another side to the void? That's where the void pests come from: a dimension on the other side of the void, coming through the tear in reality Guthix made when he stabbed too deeply with the elder blade thus shattering it.

As the void has a one side (outside of the Abyss) and another (just before the Void Pest's home world) this in turn means that the Void is a defined area of the multiverse and not an undefined, infinite emptiness.

Besides, we know the void isn't empty. It's where the Spirit Beast (and thus Corporeal Beast) originally came from, carving away chunks of the Abyss and leaving Void in its wake on its way to Gielinor.

28-Aug-2015 05:28:21 - Last edited on 28-Aug-2015 05:29:09 by Hguoh

Dec

2011

Dionysius

Posts: 1,236 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Hguoh said :
Wouldn't the biggest issue to this theory be that we know there's another side to the void? That's where the void pests come from: a dimension on the other side of the void, coming through the tear in reality Guthix made when he stabbed too deeply with the elder blade thus shattering it.

As the void has a one side (outside of the Abyss) and another (just before the Void Pest's home world) this in turn means that the Void is a defined area of the multiverse and not an undefined, infinite emptiness.

Besides, we know the void isn't empty. It's where the Spirit Beast (and thus Corporeal Beast) originally came from, carving away chunks of the Abyss and leaving Void in its wake on its way to Gielinor.

That whole Guthix x Elder Sword x Void fiasco is all very messy, I wish they'd work out a concrete version of events there. The original Wise Old Man

28-Aug-2015 14:55:14

Hguoh

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Dionysius said :
Hguoh said :
Wouldn't the biggest issue to this theory be that we know there's another side to the void? That's where the void pests come from: a dimension on the other side of the void, coming through the tear in reality Guthix made when he stabbed too deeply with the elder blade thus shattering it.

As the void has a one side (outside of the Abyss) and another (just before the Void Pest's home world) this in turn means that the Void is a defined area of the multiverse and not an undefined, infinite emptiness.

Besides, we know the void isn't empty. It's where the Spirit Beast (and thus Corporeal Beast) originally came from, carving away chunks of the Abyss and leaving Void in its wake on its way to Gielinor.

That whole Guthix x Elder Sword x Void fiasco is all very messy, I wish they'd work out a concrete version of events there.

Messy? I find that it actually tells a pretty big and interesting story. Imagine it like a bunch of bubbles all stuck together. You have our little bubble defined by the abyss, and within it lies our entire universe. Right next to it, you have the bubble containing the void pests' universe. Guthix took the elder sword and made a teeny tiny little hole in the film that comprises the shared wall of these two bubbles which allowed the two universes to leak into one another through said hole.

That film, would be the void. It's a place where nothing from within the universes can exist properly as it is in a different state than what lies within the universes (just as the edge of a bubble is made of a liquid, while the inside is a gas). It's denizens (ex: Spirit Beast) are of a different nature to us as they too are made up of a different stuff than what lies within our bubbles of reality. This grants them powers that appear supernatural to us as they interact with our plane of existence in an entirely alien way.

28-Aug-2015 15:20:15

AttilaSquare

Posts: 1,792 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

HeroicSnorro said :
This is an excellently thought out theory. I quite like it! The idea of an elder goddess (or something of that stature) leading such an existence, in charge of the actual fabric of the universe itself, does not sound far-fetched to me.

This makes me wonder, though. How would the regular real and stable elder goddesses know of the one(s) beyond the realm of their very own existence? Heck, how would Zaros even know of this being if he refers to its existence in The Light Within?

Loved the read!

-=HeroicSnorro=-
Thank you! I'm glad you like it and find it plausible. Those are precisely the questions on my mind! Would Jas, Ful, Wen, Bik, and Mah know of or perhaps remember their abyssal sister? What would their relationship be like?

Regarding the question of how they or Zaros could know of this elder goddess, we can ask: how do we know of the emptiness of ideas, or the void, or the abyss? For us, I think ideas play a role in every experience we have; but we don't sense them - it takes a kind of reflection on ourselves as conscious beings to discover the importance of ideas and their emptiness when compared with the fullness of the being of the world, or planes.

And sometimes we do discover that ideas have power over us. For example, consider listening to an argument. At some point, you see where the other person is going - it's amazing that ideas are of such a structure that we can anticipate what will come next. But there's something even more amazing: sometimes we recognize that we can't help but agree with the conclusions to come. In other words, the argument is a good one. If we've accepted the premises, we are compelled to accept the conclusion.

continued...

28-Aug-2015 15:23:40

AttilaSquare

Posts: 1,792 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

HeroicSnorro said :
This is an excellently thought out theory. I quite like it! The idea of an elder goddess (or something of that stature) leading such an existence, in charge of the actual fabric of the universe itself, does not sound far-fetched to me.

This makes me wonder, though. How would the regular real and stable elder goddesses know of the one(s) beyond the realm of their very own existence? Heck, how would Zaros even know of this being if he refers to its existence in The Light Within?

Loved the read!

-=HeroicSnorro=-
continued...

Sometimes we might escape the power of ideas, as they are arranged in a good argument, by rejecting the premises of the argument. But that can be extremely difficult; it can even be a terrifying experience and can mean sacrificing how we understand ourselves and the world. Arguments, described this way, take on a great importance; they almost affect the life or death of the soul. (For this reason, I take ideas/arguments to be one of the greatest models for explaining the nature of magic. See the first part of my On Magic and Anima , for example.)

So perhaps Zaros or the other elder gods, if they have no memory of the abyssal goddess, may have some idea of her if they have some idea of the power and importance of ideas in general. Perhaps Zaros was somehow reminded of this after TLW...though this could be a stretch.

28-Aug-2015 15:24:53

AttilaSquare

Posts: 1,792 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Aig123 said :
Here's a long-shot, but bare with me.

Assuming the sacred clay of the Primordial Realm is limited, then each imperfection is a massive waste of clay, putting the Elders at risk. After many cycles of discarding creations, surely the abyss would inevitably fill up, jam-packed with imperfect planets, like a trash can.

Well what if the abyss isn't a trash can, but a recycling bin?
If there is a hidden Elder, with power over the void/space-time, would it be her purpose to convert abyssal debris into sacred clay, or simply to expand the abyss for debris?
I think there are some interesting possibilities here. But first, I don't think the abyss is something which could ever fill up; I think it extends in the same infinite dimensions of the void. Regardless though, I do think the abyss might be something like a recycle bin.

According to the account above, there are at least two kinds of existence: the borrowed existence of things in the abyss near the planes and the real and stable existence of the planes. At least the worlds following the proto-worlds of this cycle exhibit real and stable existence. Perhaps this means that they do not depend on the existence of anything else in order to continue existing (this is perhaps contradicted by the myth of the elder dragons).

I am assuming that the things of borrowed existence require some kind of connection to a really and stably existing plane in order to continue existing. If this connection breaks, the abyssal thing returns to the nothingness of the void. I think unstable spaces, like the pocket of the abyss maintained by the ZMI initiate are like this.

continued...

28-Aug-2015 15:27:34

AttilaSquare

Posts: 1,792 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Aig123 said :
...
continued...

Following this account, we can ask: what kind of existence do the early failed worlds of the elder goddesses have? Here are some options and questions: If they contain contradictions or incompletenesses, can they have real and stable existence? If so, will they be consumed along with the rest of the multiverse at the Great Revision? If this is the case, they cannot really be said to lie in the abyss, since they have real and stable existence.

If, on the other hand, they do not have real and stable existence, perhaps because of contradictions or incompletenesses, then I thnk we can say that they properly lie in the abyss and require some connection to the real and stable planes for them to exhibit their quasi-existence at all. Then the question is: what are these connections? Do they break or decay? (Consider, for example, in C.S. Lewis's Magician's Nephew , the world of Charn ceases to exist after its last living resident departs. Or: this might relate to the fate of the runecrafting altars: do they have real or borrowed existence? if the latter, will their connection to Gielinor break and then they cease to exist?)(I also think summoning is somehow a reverse of this process: bringing creatures elsewhere into Gielinor with a borrowed existence...)

As goddess of the abyss, this elder goddess would at least oversee whatever processes like these might unfold.

28-Aug-2015 15:28:53

AttilaSquare

Posts: 1,792 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Hguoh said :
As the void has a one side (outside of the Abyss) and another (just before the Void Pest's home world) this in turn means that the Void is a defined area of the multiverse and not an undefined, infinite emptiness.
This need not be the case. Just as most visitors to Gielnor enter through the abyss, so too might some enter through the void. We are told that the abyss is accessible from every point in a plane. I think the void is likewise universally accessible, just in a different way. For example, the experience of any object may elicit from me imaginings about this and other objects (ideas+contents) or it may elicit from me empty ideas concerning this and other objects.

I think travel via abyss and void is similar, and I will here develop my theory a little further. In the abyss, we travel by along certain patterns in the contents of the abyss - whatever those may be - from one world to another; this is what I think it means to 'find a path through the abyss.' To travel through the void, we must find an empty idea corresponding to the world we're seeking to enter - this is much more difficult and, for that reason, I think rarer. But it seems to be exactly what the Pests are doing.

I haven't figured out exactly how to interpret the fact that Guthix opened the way for them into Gielinor. But perhaps we can interpret the event, following this analogy, as him having contemplated too deeply: recognizing the relationship of Gielinor to the void and so exposing it to those who might travel through it, with the power of empty thought. This is still sketchy to me, so I'll have to address it further in a future theory.

continued...

28-Aug-2015 15:30:05 - Last edited on 28-Aug-2015 15:31:37 by AttilaSquare

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The Void & Goddess of the Void