RuneScape Forum Archive | The Defence of Saradomin

Digitaltramp

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First off lets take a look at Garlandia's character, first off she willingly attended this banquet with Saradomin despite her views on the war and on gods in general a distasteful act of not only outright defiance/aggressiveness but also one of pride and vanity these defining traits of hers are further confirmed when she say's "He demanded that we fight for him" rather than seeing the reasons for the war and the need to fight for the greater good she only sees someone undermining her own selfish sense of authority and self-importance like a spoilt child throwing a tantrum after being told to tidy their room. She then states "I used to be a noble being, with wings that were the envy of everyone " again empathising on her own vanity being attacked rather than any percived greater wrong doings. surely such a pitiful and vile creature is not to be sided with?

Now lets look at Saradomins reaction, sure if we ignore the details then the act alone could indeed be accurately named as savage and barbaric but what would the cost be if he had not acted at all. To allow dissidence would of been a far greater evil as it would of led to doubt and doubt to fear, from there voices of anger and distrust would of divided the Icyene with the Dissidents succumbing to mob mentallity to assert themselves over their percived "oppressors" and the Loyalists doing much the same untill eventually civil war prevails as order collapses into chaos costing the lives of countless innocents. So did Saradomin wrong Garlandia? yes, did he act selfishly or barbarically? no he did as he has always done, as he has always claimed to act, he "bloodied his own hands so that others would not have to" he took responsibillity for the citizens of both New Domina and Glienor and put the greater good before all else, he used wisdom to preserve order.

12-Dec-2013 15:49:55

Aug

2008

Cybernet377

Posts: 2,725 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Nerevarine x said :
When you think about it, Garlandia says Saradomin brought knowledge and wealth to new Domina.

Garlandia wants to reap the benefits of this but then does not want to help Saradomin. The arrogance and ungratefulness of her - then she has the nerve to publicly oppose him.

And of course, everyone is overlooking the big picture once again. For the entire new Domina, Saradomin brought knowledge and wealth an act of benevolence that many advantaged from.

Yet, people focus on one Icyene.

Does an exchange of knowledge and wealth for military support count as benevolence?

I was under the impression that exchanging wealth for work was traditionally called "hiring"

Of course, it may be different in this case seeing as Saradomin was in control of the government when he did so. Instead of hiring, it might have simply been the traditional definition of a standing army.

12-Dec-2013 15:52:13

Lord Bilrach

Posts: 2,267 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Bleh...I knew I shouldn't have come here. After Nerevarine's constant begging to check out this thread of "solid facts", I see this is nothing more than an opinionated execution room where Logic's neck is bared for the guillotine.

12-Dec-2013 15:52:36

Nerevarine x

Posts: 5,941 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Digitaltramp said :
First off lets take a look at Garlandia's character, first off she willingly attended this banquet with Saradomin despite her views on the war and on gods in general a distasteful act of not only outright defiance/aggressiveness but also one of pride and vanity these defining traits of hers are further confirmed when she say's "He demanded that we fight for him" rather than seeing the reasons for the war and the need to fight for the greater good she only sees someone undermining her own selfish sense of authority and self-importance like a spoilt child throwing a tantrum after being told to tidy their room. She then states "I used to be a noble being, with wings that were the envy of everyone " again empathising on her own vanity being attacked rather than any percived greater wrong doings. surely such a pitiful and vile creature is not to be sided with?

Now lets look at Saradomins reaction, sure if we ignore the details then the act alone could indeed be accurately named as savage and barbaric but what would the cost be if he had not acted at all. To allow dissidence would of been a far greater evil as it would of led to doubt and doubt to fear, from there voices of anger and distrust would of divided the Icyene with the Dissidents succumbing to mob mentallity to assert themselves over their percived "oppressors" and the Loyalists doing much the same untill eventually civil war prevails as order collapses into chaos costing the lives of countless innocents. So did Saradomin wrong Garlandia? yes, did he act selfishly or barbarically? no he did as he has always done, as he has always claimed to act, he "bloodied his own hands so that others would not have to" he took responsibillity for the citizens of both New Domina and Glienor and put the greater good before all else, he used wisdom to preserve order.

Loved your post. I'd like permission to use parts of it in my thread.

12-Dec-2013 15:53:52

Nerevarine x

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Funny but so true, I find his actions were absolutely justified.

12-Dec-2013 15:54:11 - Last edited on 12-Dec-2013 15:56:39 by Nerevarine x

Aug

2008

Cybernet377

Posts: 2,725 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Digitaltramp said :
Now lets look at Saradomins reaction, sure if we ignore the details then the act alone could indeed be accurately named as savage and barbaric but what would the cost be if he had not acted at all. To allow dissidence would of been a far greater evil as it would of led to doubt and doubt to fear, from there voices of anger and distrust would of divided the Icyene with the Dissidents succumbing to mob mentallity to assert themselves over their percived "oppressors" and the Loyalists doing much the same untill eventually civil war prevails as order collapses into chaos costing the lives of countless innocents. So did Saradomin wrong Garlandia? yes, did he act selfishly or barbarically? no he did as he has always done, as he has always claimed to act, he "bloodied his own hands so that others would not have to" he took responsibillity for the citizens of both New Domina and Glienor and put the greater good before all else, he used wisdom to preserve order.

I'm fairly certain that quashing sedition isn't implicitly heroic.

In fact, it's usually regarded as a bad thing.

Either way, there's a rebel faction wrecking everything on the homeworld, so apparently making an example out of someone through violence doesn't guarantee that everyone will view you as benevolent. Who knew?

12-Dec-2013 15:56:21

Zebub

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I must congratulate you Nerevarine, you're actually perfect to become a politician: if you're discredited, turn it into something good! I like your crazy creativity.

Of course I don't buy your whole explanation, you can twist as much as you want, stripping somebody's wings off and leaving her to rot is hellish cruelty. No matter what she has done, nothing motivates such fate.

~ There must be

Tranquillity

and

Conflict

,

Liberty

and

Control

,

Order

and

Chaos

,

Collectivity

and

Individuality

, there must be...

Balance

! Join the 9th faction: Guthix! ~

~ There must be Tranquillity and Conflict, Liberty and Control, Order and Chaos, Collectivity and Individuality, there must be... Balance! ~

12-Dec-2013 16:03:57

Solanumtinkr

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Saying she willingly attended could be stretching the truth. Maybe she did or it could easily have been mandatory attendance, in which case not turning up would have been just as bad for her as what happened only with no one any the wiser for anything that happened to her. So turning up may have been the only real course of action worth while taking. He invaded their world, demanded worship and forced anyone of his choosing to fight for him even when they did not want to fight, as you can tell from her own stance in the Godless.

While she is not a pacifist, she sees a necessity for defence even if she also doesn't want to fight. But apparently she is now far more deadly without her wings than with them. I think if Zilyana came for her, Zily will have met her match.

Without wings, she is actually less cumbersome and hugely agile, making her even more potent. She sees her disability as a boon, unshackling her from Saradomin and homogeneity.

The purpose of adventure is to shine light into dark places,
Poke monsters with a sharp stick, Then steal anything that isn't nailed down!
To the Manor Born QFC 185-186-367-65788716

12-Dec-2013 16:05:13 - Last edited on 12-Dec-2013 16:11:26 by Solanumtinkr

Digitaltramp

Posts: 800 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Nerevarine x said :
Loved your post. I'd like permission to use parts of it in my thread.

Of course

Cybernet377 said :

I'm fairly certain that quashing sedition isn't implicitly heroic.

In fact, it's usually regarded as a bad thing.

Worked well for Britain during the world wars, as evidenced by the simple fact that we're not speaking german.

Besides your still missing the point, its not necessarily the act it self that is heroic but the purpose of the act. If you do not belive a world of peace and order is worth the necessary sacrifices of war then what kind of a world is it you desire?

12-Dec-2013 16:13:39 - Last edited on 12-Dec-2013 16:15:35 by Digitaltramp

Nerevarine x

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Lord Bilrach said :
Bleh...I knew I shouldn't have come here. After Nerevarine's constant begging to check out this thread of "solid facts", I see this is nothing more than an opinionated execution room where Logic's neck is bared for the guillotine.

I didn't beg anyone..stop lying.

12-Dec-2013 17:11:47

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The Defence of Saradomin