forums.rs

Forums

The Defence of Saradomin Thread is locked

Quick find code: 341-342-605-65228310

of 99
Solanumtinkr

Solanumtinkr

Posts: 22,240 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I see redemption as seeking 'to be saved' whereas making amends I see as 'making up from a wrong done' I don't see it as the same thing at all. The full force of the failure would not have hit him until he had failed completely by having to flee and saving no one.

Atone is the combination of both but it is seeking such approval for their regret and thier making amends from a 'higher source' none of which Saradomin would recognise. The purpose of adventure is to shine light into dark places,
Poke monsters with a sharp stick, Then steal anything that isn't nailed down!
To the Manor Born QFC 185-186-367-65788716

07-Dec-2013 10:45:14 - Last edited on 07-Dec-2013 11:09:43 by Solanumtinkr

Nerevarine x

Nerevarine x

Posts: 5,941 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Solanumtinkr said :
I see redemption as seeking \'to be saved\' whereas the other is \'making up from a wrong done\' I don\'t see it as the same thing at all. The full force of the failure would not have hit him until he had failed completely by having to flee and saving no one.\n\nAtone is the combination of both but it is seeking such approval for their regret and thier making amends from a \'higher source\' none of which Saradomin would recognise.

It doesn't matter, you're getting caught up on trivial details :P The words mean approximately the same thing, to redeem oneself is to do an action in an attempt to make up for an error, to make amends is to 'fix' a past mistake or problem through action.

They're very similar.

I just use them interchangeably to keep my posts refreshing, there's a lot of content I've posted and if I constantly used the same descriptive words it becomes tedious for readers.

07-Dec-2013 11:07:05 - Last edited on 07-Dec-2013 11:10:47 by Nerevarine x

Cthris
Dec Member 2023

Cthris

Posts: 5,206 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
William Witt said :
Just popping in. Haven't read all the posts. Noctiseus, that sentence doesn't appear to imply that the city contains nothing but the elderly and the infirm. Indeed, the rest of that portion of the text appears to make this exceedingly implausible. (They talk of making the journey north and say the elderly and infirm cannot do so—If everyone is elderly and infirm, how is anyone to take the journey they were just describing? That sentence seems to me to simply be saying that the elderly and infirm members of the population won't be able to make the journey north, not that the entire population is elderly and infirm.As for what Azzanadra said, I have long said he appears to be incorrect on that count—If you look at the displays on the ground floor of the Museum of Varrock, you can find a Zamorakian coin marked 'Senntisten'... It looks as though the Zarosians abandoned Senntisten (allowing Zamorak to capture it), not fought to the death like Azzanadra imagined. Also, Saranthium was a separate settlement built in the area much later (perhaps Senntisten was genuinely gone by then).

I'm sorry you mis understood me, I was referring to the fact that when the initial invasion occurred there was only elderly and wounded, everyone else had left a that point, yet the forces of Zamorak and Saradomin completely annihilated the city, killing all the elderly and wounded, destroying it completely, I imagine that those poor people remaining tried to defend themselves against an unturnable tide of enimeies and that's why Azzandra said they fought hard.

07-Dec-2013 11:26:55

Solanumtinkr

Solanumtinkr

Posts: 22,240 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'll let that slide then.

But I will insist that the lesson he earned is not the warm and fuzzy think of other first hug a tree kiss a whale attitude that some people seem to imply. He does things that benefit him first and foremost, with his followers coming distant second. if it doesn't hurt his future ambitions, and only well after an incident taking place.

Yes he will retaliate and lash out if his followers are threatened, but only if something else more important is not happening, in which case he'd send someone else to try and take care of it. That would be no different from the way Zamorak would handle it, even if the details would be far hasher with Zamorak. The thing threatening his followers would have to be fairly major for him to bestir himself though.

Or it would have to threat present of future plans, and by doing so get in his way. In which case he would Roflstomp the problem, if possible. Saradomin is not as clearheaded, all powerful and wise as he would like to think, and I think that is part of the problem.

Though he does have a planet sized ego and enough arrogance to ice it. By his own admition he think of this planet as his ans his alone and that is is the only true god, the rest are pretenders, false gods. And by his own admission mortals are they to service him, which is verified in the you dare defy a god statement. Yes, not a question but a statement as if it's hard fact. Top if off with the fact he recognises no one else as truly being a god at all, and you still have the divine right to rule attitude that caused all the trouble with his first encounter with the Naragi. And so he keeps on with his right to rule over all via invasion, nothing has really changed but a few step of the dance.

Still Saradomin keeps trying and has not tempered his attaempt ecept for how he talks to those influential few, like us. In the words of Yoda, Do or do not, there is no try. He reaches beyond himself for that which he truly is not, and so he fails. The purpose of adventure is to shine light into dark places,
Poke monsters with a sharp stick, Then steal anything that isn't nailed down!
To the Manor Born QFC 185-186-367-65788716

07-Dec-2013 11:29:07

Nerevarine x

Nerevarine x

Posts: 5,941 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Cthris said :
William Witt said :
Just popping in. Haven\'t read all the posts. Noctiseus, that sentence doesn\'t appear to imply that the city contains nothing but the elderly and the infirm. Indeed, the rest of that portion of the text appears to make this exceedingly implausible. (They talk of making the journey north and say the elderly and infirm cannot do so—If everyone is elderly and infirm, how is anyone to take the journey they were just describing? That sentence seems to me to simply be saying that the elderly and infirm members of the population won\'t be able to make the journey north, not that the entire population is elderly and infirm.As for what Azzanadra said, I have long said he appears to be incorrect on that count—If you look at the displays on the ground floor of the Museum of Varrock, you can find a Zamorakian coin marked \'Senntisten\'... It looks as though the Zarosians abandoned Senntisten (allowing Zamorak to capture it), not fought to the death like Azzanadra imagined. Also, Saranthium was a separate settlement built in the area much later (perhaps Senntisten was genuinely gone by then). \n\nI\'m sorry you mis understood me, I was referring to the fact that when the initial invasion occurred there was only elderly and wounded, everyone else had left a that point, yet the forces of Zamorak and Saradomin completely annihilated the city, killing all the elderly and wounded, destroying it completely, I imagine that those poor people remaining tried to defend themselves against an unturnable tide of enimeies and that\'s why Azzandra said they fought hard.

I answered this earlier and there's numerous problems with the evidence you presented.

07-Dec-2013 11:30:24

Solanumtinkr

Solanumtinkr

Posts: 22,240 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Nerevarine x said :
Changes to the "Song From Before the War" section with even more detail now. It addresses key concerns like the golem limbs and Icyene refusing to allow humans into positions of High Command in the war

As long as you recognise the Icyene's militant attitude and looking down on humans, otherwise your analysis is pointless. No god has seen humans as more than something to walk over until present time and some are only just waking up to it. Their followers wer a lot worse and far more in the humans faces about it. It may require their own precious favoured few getting their rears kicked up between their ears by humans to get it to really sink in, in some cases. The purpose of adventure is to shine light into dark places,
Poke monsters with a sharp stick, Then steal anything that isn't nailed down!
To the Manor Born QFC 185-186-367-65788716

07-Dec-2013 11:33:05 - Last edited on 07-Dec-2013 11:33:55 by Solanumtinkr

Nerevarine x

Nerevarine x

Posts: 5,941 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Solanumtinkr said :
Nerevarine x said :
Changes to the "Song From Before the War" section with even more detail now. It addresses key concerns like the golem limbs and Icyene refusing to allow humans into positions of High Command in the war \n\nAs long as you recognise the Icyene\'s militant attitude and looking down on humans, otherwise your analysis is pointless. No god has seen humans as more than something to walk over until present time and some oare only just waking up to it. It may require their own precious favoured few getting their rears kicked up between their ears by humans to get it to really sink in, in some cases.

My analysis isn't pointless if I have valid reasons to contest the claim that the Icyene looked down upon humans.

Anyway, there's a lot of explanation and I admit the Icyene may have been bigoted or have a sense of superiority over humans depending on particular circumstances which can't be determined - but ONLY in relation to the golem limb issue.

I find Sergeant Mazakon has a good reason for why humans were denied positions in the High Command, I also suggest Mazakon's treatment of Elspeth (when he calls her a useless human woman) isn't as shocking or prejudiced as people make it out to be.

But if you decide to read it you'll learn more than my brief post here, it's just a summary.

07-Dec-2013 11:37:43 - Last edited on 07-Dec-2013 11:40:16 by Nerevarine x

Cthris
Dec Member 2023

Cthris

Posts: 5,206 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
1. Because the elderly and infirm could not make the journey North in the evacuation, Dagroda orders Zarosians to "use all necessary means to control the civilian population." Hence, it appears to me (can't be confirmed) like the elderly and infirm were executed, or in some way, "controlled".

Where do you get executed, when they say controled they mean stop any riots from happening that might imerge from telling people that they will die in the invasion because they are to old to travel, not execute them.

. Let's investigate another avenue, presuming the elderly and infirm didn't defend themselves. Senntisten was destroyed and rebuilt into a Saradominist city name Saranthium, it doesn't mean Saradomin slaughtered the innocent people in the city.

Remember, Nex's Followers explicitly draws reference to anyone who would not kneel before Zamorak as being killed. It mentions Zamorak for a reason - why would Saradomin systematically eliminate civilians who did not want to worship Zamorak? It's irrational.

Saradomin wanted to disassemble Zaros' Empire and build his own. It was an act of war and conquering (and no, to subjugate a fortress or town is not to commit genocide).

If Saradomin was truely a man of the people he wouldn't have participated in a slaughter of defenseless humans


Besides, its hardly a war when the enemy hasn't attacked you in hundreds of years, Zaros died and everyone just sat thier waiting for him to come back, yet Saradomin with nothing to do, Zaros gone, Zamorak banished decided that his need for war and glory was to strong and attacked a city that had mostly humans and continued to do this for hundreds of years, its purely an attack on a group of people based on what their ancestors did

07-Dec-2013 11:39:51 - Last edited on 07-Dec-2013 11:41:29 by Cthris

Quick find code: 341-342-605-65228310 Back to Top