RuneScape Forum Archive | Genocide by wing?

Lord Remus

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A question comes to mind concerning the Icyene Nobles. Did they have command over their own private forces? Kind of akin to the Demonic legions that Zaros secured from Hostilius. I can see Saradomin's fear being somewhat reasonable if Garlandia commanded a large fighting force and feared the other Nobles would withdraw their support if given the oppurtunity.

That being said, it always gave me the impression it was just Garlandia and I find it impossible to justify Saradomin's responce if it was.

EDIT: After reading the new Saradomin dialouge apparently she called for all the Icyene to lay down their weapons and find a peaceful solution instead. That makes a little bit more sense if it's true but I still think the genocide was still inexcusable. I'm Godless although I consider myself Independent/Unaligned I "We create ourselves through life. Every victory, every failure and every lesson learned from them... Make us who we are. Once we have lived life to it's end, that is when we realise who we are... or more accurately, who we were."

21-Dec-2016 20:24:44 - Last edited on 21-Dec-2016 20:38:58 by Lord Remus

Ancient Drew

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The way I see it, Saradomin has had tens of millennia of really crappy experiences and few of them were good. He likely treasures the good ones and fears the sight of a thriving civilisation burning down. When it came to good experience, I think he had some of the worst luck compared to other gods like Armadyl who I think had it pretty good before Gielinor. Prepare for hell on RuneScape in Naval Cataclysm!

Pokemon battle? Friend Code: 4614-0426-2439

21-Dec-2016 22:03:57

NotFishing

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Saw this on the front page and had to respond.

Padomenes said :
"Muh why aren't you letting themselves invade and destroy you?! Turn the other cheek!" ~CD_Cuck_C

And? It's not justified to kill those who are trying to kill you? "Turn the other cheek" or "be killed" is the most stupid phrase ever. What always works in survival is an eye for an eye and kill or be killed. Zamorak also directly tried to genocide the Zarosians and for their beliefs, not for security/order. And the other gods were also involved in locking up Nex.

Your saying it's better to let them kill you rather than kill them before you are killed.

If you have a bully you have to use force sometimes so they can't have the will to hurt you anymore otherwise they will never listen, its the same situation.

A show of force to deter an opponent from attacking you in the future is one thing. But hunting your enemies to extinction is genocide. And there is no excuse for that. Beneath the gold, the Bitter Steel.

21-Dec-2016 23:01:53 - Last edited on 21-Dec-2016 23:04:10 by NotFishing

Dec

2023

Mewzard

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NotFishing said :
A show of force to deter an opponent from attacking you in the future is one thing. But hunting your enemies to extinction is genocide. And there is no excuse for that.

The question comes down to: was genocide aimed for?

If enough of the population that was capable of reproduction was lost in the war, the species could have been lost even if they weren't aiming for it (if both the Icyene and the rival group put most of their people into the battle, the end result could be the other group fell below the minimal viable population numbers needed to survive and went extinct from it).

21-Dec-2016 23:42:34

CD_Paladin_C

Posts: 3,945 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Mewzard said :
NotFishing said :
A show of force to deter an opponent from attacking you in the future is one thing. But hunting your enemies to extinction is genocide. And there is no excuse for that.

The question comes down to: was genocide aimed for?

If enough of the population that was capable of reproduction was lost in the war, the species could have been lost even if they weren't aiming for it (if both the Icyene and the rival group put most of their people into the battle, the end result could be the other group fell below the minimal viable population numbers needed to survive and went extinct from it).

Well if you remember with the Naragi, Saradomin has no qualms killing innocents like women and children. Could easily see Saradomin wiping them all out. "Your god's dead next time he's in a world event. "
-The Lore Community to our Saradominist Friends, Said During World Event 2, Proven During World Event 3.

#StopSaradomin

22-Dec-2016 00:04:31

Edcy

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Petty explains to invade more, why not live in his own world happily ever after? What is the nencessity in his necessities?? I will not add third guestion with 3 guestion markers due to unstable thread.

22-Dec-2016 00:14:22

Padomenes

Posts: 3,662 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

NotFishing said :
Saw this on the front page and had to respond.

Padomenes said :
"Muh why aren't you letting themselves invade and destroy you?! Turn the other cheek!" ~CD_Cuck_C

And? It's not justified to kill those who are trying to kill you? "Turn the other cheek" or "be killed" is the most stupid phrase ever. What always works in survival is an eye for an eye and kill or be killed. Zamorak also directly tried to genocide the Zarosians and for their beliefs, not for security/order. And the other gods were also involved in locking up Nex.

Your saying it's better to let them kill you rather than kill them before you are killed.

If you have a bully you have to use force sometimes so they can't have the will to hurt you anymore otherwise they will never listen, its the same situation.

A show of force to deter an opponent from attacking you in the future is one thing. But hunting your enemies to extinction is genocide. And there is no excuse for that. Look, wars lead to the death of civilians including elderly/children even if they are NOT even hit. Soldiers passing through would be looting, especially food from civilians in an actual war. They would be dying anyway from: Starvation due to a lack of abundance in food, exposure due to lack of shelter, sickness, nobody to care for them, loose infrastructure or being hit because of troops being either holding out in their area. War is not genocide, even many races went extinct as a side effect of the god wars in the third age. From all deities collectively fighting.

22-Dec-2016 01:43:09

Padomenes

Posts: 3,662 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

CD_Paladin_C said :
Mewzard said :
NotFishing said :
A show of force to deter an opponent from attacking you in the future is one thing. But hunting your enemies to extinction is genocide. And there is no excuse for that.

The question comes down to: was genocide aimed for?

If enough of the population that was capable of reproduction was lost in the war, the species could have been lost even if they weren't aiming for it (if both the Icyene and the rival group put most of their people into the battle, the end result could be the other group fell below the minimal viable population numbers needed to survive and went extinct from it).

Well if you remember with the Naragi, Saradomin has no qualms killing innocents like women and children. Could easily see Saradomin wiping them all out. Women's lives equally matter to that of men. Where is your evidence? Show me where it says Saradomin ordered the "deaths of children". War still kills civilians as a result of collateral damage it inflicts if the soldiers did not actively kill them. Even if they were not killed they would still die from things like exposure or starving due to troops looting/damage sustained and having nobody to look after them. It's not "genocide" to keep your resources for yourself incase of more important stuff instead of "relief".

Edcy said :
Petty explains to invade more, why not live in his own world happily ever after? What is the nencessity in his necessities?? I will not add third guestion with 3 guestion markers due to unstable thread. To spread the philosophy of order to bring prosperity to others as shown on Gielinor how it has worked out. Saradomin is non-isolationist and wants to be a world sheriff kind of figure against chaos. It's justified like the war on terror.

22-Dec-2016 01:46:07 - Last edited on 22-Dec-2016 01:50:37 by Padomenes

NotFishing

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Padomenes said :
Look, wars lead to the death of civilians including elderly/children even if they are NOT even hit. Soldiers passing through would be looting, especially food from civilians in an actual war. They would be dying anyway from: Starvation due to a lack of abundance in food, exposure due to lack of shelter, sickness, nobody to care for them, loose infrastructure or being hit because of troops being either holding out in their area. War is not genocide, even many races went extinct as a side effect of the god wars in the third age. From all deities collectively fighting.

I don't buy that for a second. Name one real life war that has led to the death of every single civilian in a country. You can't. And if you can, it was a war where they were SPECIFICALLY targeting civilians.

If there are sick and starving civilians left over from the fighting, then it is Saradomin's responsibility to ensure they are looked after. There is no way that every single civilian died to collateral damage. There are always survivors. Beneath the gold, the Bitter Steel.

22-Dec-2016 02:40:05

Padomenes

Posts: 3,662 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

NotFishing said :
Padomenes said :
Look, wars lead to the death of civilians including elderly/children even if they are NOT even hit. Soldiers passing through would be looting, especially food from civilians in an actual war. They would be dying anyway from: Starvation due to a lack of abundance in food, exposure due to lack of shelter, sickness, nobody to care for them, loose infrastructure or being hit because of troops being either holding out in their area. War is not genocide, even many races went extinct as a side effect of the god wars in the third age. From all deities collectively fighting.

I don't buy that for a second. Name one real life war that has led to the death of every single civilian in a country. You can't. And if you can, it was a war where they were SPECIFICALLY targeting civilians.

If there are sick and starving civilians left over from the fighting, then it is Saradomin's responsibility to ensure they are looked after. There is no way that every single civilian died to collateral damage. There are always survivors. The god wars did just that and drove many races extinct. You really haven't read about the climate of new domina have you. It's cold, harsh and easy to die without food/shelter in a matter of days.

There have been some - many in the Middle Ages and villages' populations have gone extinct. It's still not genocide if Saradomin just leaves them like he left wounded civilians in lumbridge. Also as for naragun he didn't try to literally kill every single naragi, just went mad and knocked down the buildings that made up the city even tried to make up for it by battling tuska. But at the same time his elder crown drew other gods in whom made it worse and leading to it being unsavable. But that wasn't "genocide" was it. There were many survivors but Saradomin was gone anyways and the other gods made work of them. No proof Saradomin INTENDED "genocide".

22-Dec-2016 02:53:12

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Genocide by wing?