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Genocide by wing?

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Padomenes

Padomenes

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Lord Remus said :
While I agree that standing up for yourself and the occasional violence is necessary for progression and peace, I disagree with almost everything else. This isn't a mere bully in a school yard, this is an entire race we are talking about here.

Killing armed combatants in the heat of battle and self defence is different than killing non-combatants in their homes. Because what you may have failed to realise is that not all of the native race would have been warriors. Many would have been children as well, along with the old, the sickly and any peaceful inhabitants that may have protested but were ignored because they had no military power.

All wiped out. An entire culture and people erased from the face of their home planet probably because their government picked the wrong blue giant to fight with.

There is nothing reasonable or justifiable about complete genocide of a sentient race. If you over power someone that greatly that you can take out the entire race, you can afford some mercy. Its possible Saradomin could have assimilated them, not killed all of them or his reasoning could be that from his experience they might have decided to retaliate against the order in the long-term to destroy it. I would have done taken the "mercy" path(To prove you wrong about the Saradomin faction) but perhaps from his experience it was not viable for order in long-term but we can show him if he can be convinced it works. The Zarosian Empire also did similar things anyway?

Also are you sure it could not have been collateral damage?

21-Dec-2016 04:04:54 - Last edited on 21-Dec-2016 04:05:37 by Padomenes

Lord Remus

Lord Remus

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Padomenes said :
Its possible Saradomin could have assimilated them, not killed all of them or his reasoning could be that from his experience they might have decided to retaliate against the order in the long-term to destroy it. I would have done taken the "mercy" path(To prove you wrong about the Saradomin faction) but perhaps from his experience it was not viable for order in long-term but we can show him if he can be convinced it works. The Zarosian Empire also did similar things anyway?

Also are you sure it could not have been collateral damage?

Ah, my apologies. I didn't mean that as a slight against the Saradomin faction as whole but rather against Saradomin's choice in this particular scenario. I do however take issue with anyone that would support his choice for no other reason than that he's there chosen god. Blind faith is not true loyalty and any blind followers are actually a detriment to their faction.

That aside, an entire race is a LOT of collateral damage unless they had the same kind of numbers the Mahjarrat currently do. I'm Godless although I consider myself Independent/Unaligned I "We create ourselves through life. Every victory, every failure and every lesson learned from them... Make us who we are. Once we have lived life to it's end, that is when we realise who we are... or more accurately, who we were."

21-Dec-2016 04:21:12

Padomenes

Padomenes

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Lord Remus said :
Ah, my apologies. I didn't mean that as a slight against the Saradomin faction as whole but rather against Saradomin's choice in this particular scenario. I do however take issue with anyone that would support his choice for no other reason than that he's there chosen god. Blind faith is not true loyalty and any blind followers are actually a detriment to their faction.

That aside, an entire race is a LOT of collateral damage unless they had the same kind of numbers the Mahjarrat currently do. I follow Saradomin basically in a way that aligns with my values and the difference is I am a bit more softcore on some ways of doing things like preventing Saradomin/Zamorak from fighting in the maze. But some uses on here like one on this thread and another continue to bash and call us "genocidal".

For collateral damage we have an example of it being a possibility here, in the god wars as Juna mentioned it was not safe even for civilians or ordinary life in general. Many races went extinct as a result of them. Every day of life was a struggle to survive during the god wars even for the strongest according to what she mentions. Yes "races" can go extinct as a result of intense war in the runescape universe somehow. Especially when there are soldiers inside civilian areas and people using magic to blast or set fire to them in the process of trying to kill the enemy. Sometimes I wondered why do the gods try to avoid civilian areas alot when they fight now as opposed to during the third age in forinthry, is it cause of that?

21-Dec-2016 04:24:39 - Last edited on 21-Dec-2016 04:34:00 by Padomenes

Lord Remus

Lord Remus

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Padomenes said :
For collateral damage we have an example of it being a possibility here, in the god wars as Juna mentioned it was not safe even for civilians or ordinary life in general. Many races went extinct as a result of them. Every day of life was a struggle to survive during the god wars even for the strongest according to what she mentions. Yes "races" can go extinct as a result of intense war in the runescape universe somehow. Especially when there are soldiers inside civilian areas and people using magic to blast or set fire to them in the process of trying to kill the enemy.

Perhaps. However Juna was referring to the God Wars which had many factions, more than the current age, and had Bandos as a participant who really didn't care for collateral damage. Not to mention the length of time the Wars actually dragged on for.

As far as we know, there was only Saradomin at the time and even if it was a case of God vs God, I doubt it would even come close to the level of destruction that the God Wars was implied to have done.

Maybe if we knew the exact numbers and the like then maybe it could be rationally excused. But with what we were given, Saradomin feels massively in the wrong here, well intended or not. I'm Godless although I consider myself Independent/Unaligned I "We create ourselves through life. Every victory, every failure and every lesson learned from them... Make us who we are. Once we have lived life to it's end, that is when we realise who we are... or more accurately, who we were."

21-Dec-2016 04:36:18

Padomenes

Padomenes

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In old forms of warfare during sieges the soldiers sometimes - often used civilian areas to tactical advantage, especially when being pushed back to hold out against invaders. Sometimes the citizens as a result of being so close would take up arms and join in the "defense" of the area. This leads to the attacking army wanting to destroy the infrastructure they are holding out in.

Siege weapons, magic or whatever during large scale wars in the runescape universe would be used on civilian populated areas if they felt there was no choice and really just wanted to destroy the soldiers in the area to get to the enemy. Even if civilians aren't directly hit/targeted they could still die in large numbers from indirect causes coming from the war. Naturally you should feel guilty.

21-Dec-2016 04:39:49 - Last edited on 21-Dec-2016 04:52:11 by Padomenes

Lord Remus

Lord Remus

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Like I said, without knowing the exact details we will never be able to judge if it the right choice to make. I stand by my opinion that I think it was wrong and won't begrudge you for your own opinion.

But after taking up a page of our lovely Solanumtinkr's thread, I believe we should cut our discussion there. XD I'd be happy to talk about this further in-game when I fix my computer should you feel inclined to. I'm Godless although I consider myself Independent/Unaligned I "We create ourselves through life. Every victory, every failure and every lesson learned from them... Make us who we are. Once we have lived life to it's end, that is when we realise who we are... or more accurately, who we were."

21-Dec-2016 04:51:21

Padomenes

Padomenes

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But I was just letting it be clear that war does not necessarily kill people directly. Civilians would get unstable infrastructure falling on them, sickness, exposure to weather due to lack of shelter, famines/food shortages, looters or injury from stuff like stray magic/arrow volleys flying into them. The elderly and children would perish easily from these things if nobody was left around to look after them often, imagine no food to go around.

Everytime you are a side that is going to do war you've got to take these factors into mind.

New Domina is mentioned as a place with very harsh climates that almost none would be able to survive in if left without shelter.

I'm not saying you are wrong but, just letting you know. In medieval times troops even burnt wheat fields and looted civilian areas for food. If you notice how Saradomin handles warfare he just goes in to fight the enemy then wins or loses regardless of damage endured and simply leaves/moves on.

21-Dec-2016 04:53:05 - Last edited on 21-Dec-2016 05:13:46 by Padomenes

Solanumtinkr

Solanumtinkr

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Even if you disagree with the entire race, if the adults are that intransient as to be suicidaly murderous to the last nut job, then slaughter them all and bring up the children as your own. There is no way in scenario the kids would be "preprogramed to be evil". This is a justification to reach an end goal of total loyalty of the Iceyne. It's called self delusion. I shudder to think just how many races would, coould be or have been exterminated under the same justification.

It seems to me that if Saradomin ever secured his hold on Gielinor, the Godless would suffer the same fate in short order. Varoago would not stpe in unless the Godless tied their organisation into the Anima and Anima Mundi as integral as soon as possible. They would certainly need something game changing.

Did not the Icyene manage for thousands of years, evolving flight to sort out the problem? Or did Saradomin bring them to "New Domina" and wipe out the natives? The purpose of adventure is to shine light into dark places,
Poke monsters with a sharp stick, Then steal anything that isn't nailed down!
To the Manor Born QFC 185-186-367-65788716

21-Dec-2016 19:49:52

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