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Teirs not the full story?

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Aterivus
Dec Member 2020

Aterivus

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Hazeel said :
Lord Drakan said :
They're not canon

DaT.

To be fair, Zamorak did refer to it as a construct of the humans of the Second Age attempting to make a "crude quantification" of the Gods' power(s). We could still conceivably refer to it as non-canonical or headcanon, but purely from the perspective of ancient NPCs rather than the game developers. In-universe, it's still a rough estimation of raw power and the capacity of divine abilities, not something adamantly etched into the bylaws of godhood.

But still, it was perhaps a mistake to even mention it in-game. It may have been better to keep it as purely outside knowledge, if only to keep an aura of mystique and appeal surrounding the powers of the Gods from an in-universe perspective. I feel it would have been a better approach to keep it so no one would actually know how to measure their power in-universe (in-game), so we'd have all different people of all different faiths thinking much-different thoughts about how powerful their favored god truly is (and/or how weak they would perceive those they dislike). " All great changes are preceded by chaos. "

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30-Aug-2016 21:03:46

Hazeel

Hazeel

Posts: 6,735 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Aterivus said :
Hazeel said :
Lord Drakan said :
They're not canon

DaT.

To be fair, Zamorak did refer to it as a construct of the humans of the Second Age attempting to make a "crude quantification" of the Gods' power(s). We could still conceivably refer to it as non-canonical or headcanon, but purely from the perspective of ancient NPCs rather than the game developers. In-universe, it's still a rough estimation of raw power and the capacity of divine abilities, not something adamantly etched into the bylaws of godhood.

But still, it was perhaps a mistake to even mention it in-game. It may have been better to keep it as purely outside knowledge, if only to keep an aura of mystique and appeal surrounding the powers of the Gods from an in-universe perspective. I feel it would have been a better approach to keep it so no one would actually know how to measure their power in-universe (in-game), so we'd have all different people of all different faiths thinking much-different thoughts about how powerful their favored god truly is (and/or how weak they would perceive those they dislike).

You could certainly make an argument to the credibility of tiers, but tiers as a concept are definitely canon. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

30-Aug-2016 21:08:21

Lord Drakan
Sep Member 2010

Lord Drakan

Posts: 7,043 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
If tiers are explicitly referred to in DaT, that's a mistake on the developer's part, as something like that would only be appropriate in the Gower Quest. But while DaT is a significant improvement over MPD, and arguably even a good quest, given the lore credence of its artifex, tiers' being mentioned (apparently) are an argument in favour of my statement, if anything. :P Which is not to say my previous post was an opinion, it's simply true. Which sounds c***y but is something we know to be true, but people tend to disregard. Mod Osborne said so himself when he first mentioned the tiers. At this point I wish we would never have got them. Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. OSRS: POH ideas & RS3 minigames & achievement ideas !

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
— Zanik

30-Aug-2016 21:12:06

Lord Drakan
Sep Member 2010

Lord Drakan

Posts: 7,043 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hazeel said :
Aterivus said :
Hazeel said :
Lord Drakan said :
They're not canon

DaT.

To be fair, Zamorak did refer to it as a construct of the humans of the Second Age attempting to make a "crude quantification" of the Gods' power(s). We could still conceivably refer to it as non-canonical or headcanon, but purely from the perspective of ancient NPCs rather than the game developers. In-universe, it's still a rough estimation of raw power and the capacity of divine abilities, not something adamantly etched into the bylaws of godhood.

But still, it was perhaps a mistake to even mention it in-game. It may have been better to keep it as purely outside knowledge, if only to keep an aura of mystique and appeal surrounding the powers of the Gods from an in-universe perspective. I feel it would have been a better approach to keep it so no one would actually know how to measure their power in-universe (in-game), so we'd have all different people of all different faiths thinking much-different thoughts about how powerful their favored god truly is (and/or how weak they would perceive those they dislike).

You could certainly make an argument to the credibility of tiers, but tiers as a concept are definitely canon.
They are not. There isn't any arguing otherwise, sorry. Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. OSRS: POH ideas & RS3 minigames & achievement ideas !

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
— Zanik

30-Aug-2016 21:13:22

Ancient Drew

Ancient Drew

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Tiers are basically a measure of power and access to abilities, pure and simple. But even a mortal can kill a god with the right tools and the right approach, as was evident with Zamorak when he attacked Zaros. Zaros was unaware that Zamorak was about to attack, and he got caught out. These things just happen. Prepare for hell on RuneScape in Naval Cataclysm!

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30-Aug-2016 21:32:14

AesirWarrior
Jan Member 2021

AesirWarrior

Posts: 1,060 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The tiers as we know them don't exist in-universe. Their only legitimacy comes from their use as developer guidelines.

Overlooking the fact that it was pretty bad writing, the "tiers" Zamorak mention were probably at best part of some religious text trying to argue for one deity's supremacy over another. After all, they'd have no way of kowing the actual extent of their power.

Perhaps it's something from a Zarosian holy text, claiming Zaros sat on a different level than the pretenders. Alternatively, it might have been a Saradominist text that illustrated the difference between the one true god and lesser deities. -
I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

30-Aug-2016 21:38:57

Hazeel

Hazeel

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Lord Drakan said :
They are not. There isn't any arguing otherwise, sorry.

Looks like you need to brush up on your lore then.

Hazeel: Have you gained power from touching the Stone of Jas?

Zamorak: I was able to absorb a lot of power from the Stone within a short time, almost as if I was re-energising stores that already existed within me.

Zamorak: As the World Guardian, you were only able to channel the Stone's energy temporarily, whereas I was able to fully absorb it in order to permanently increase my strength.

Zamorak: I recall that the humans of the Second Age drafted a hierarchy containing seven tiers of godhood, from demigods to Elder Gods.

Zamorak: In this crude quantification of power I believe I have risen a tier, regaining the power I lost to Saradomin.

Tiers, as a form of measurement, are definitely canon...even if you want to make the case that they aren't accurate. At best, you could make the claim that the tiers mentioned here aren't the same as the tiers listed by developers...but even so, you would be grasping at straws and only have the flimsiest of evidence at your side.

That said, I'm not happy about it. I wish they had never made tiers and simply given each God their own unique set of expertise, powers, etc. but it is what it is. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

30-Aug-2016 21:53:27 - Last edited on 30-Aug-2016 21:56:29 by Hazeel

Zulkir

Zulkir

Posts: 7,343 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Lord Drakan said :
Hazeel said :
Aterivus said :
Hazeel said :
Lord Drakan said :
They're not canon

DaT.

To be fair, Zamorak did refer to it as a construct of the humans of the Second Age attempting to make a "crude quantification" of the Gods' power(s). We could still conceivably refer to it as non-canonical or headcanon, but purely from the perspective of ancient NPCs rather than the game developers. In-universe, it's still a rough estimation of raw power and the capacity of divine abilities, not something adamantly etched into the bylaws of godhood.

But still, it was perhaps a mistake to even mention it in-game. It may have been better to keep it as purely outside knowledge, if only to keep an aura of mystique and appeal surrounding the powers of the Gods from an in-universe perspective. I feel it would have been a better approach to keep it so no one would actually know how to measure their power in-universe (in-game), so we'd have all different people of all different faiths thinking much-different thoughts about how powerful their favored god truly is (and/or how weak they would perceive those they dislike).

You could certainly make an argument to the credibility of tiers, but tiers as a concept are definitely canon.
They are not. There isn't any arguing otherwise, sorry.

Stop plugging your ears and whining when people correct you.

They are for better or for worse, Canon. Come to terms with that.
Zarosian Lorehound

Master Questcape Owner

Inconsistent Completionist

30-Aug-2016 23:29:30

Baxtorian
Jul Member 2009

Baxtorian

Posts: 6,314 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Zulkir said :
No, tiers clearly define their specific powers granted when in range of the tier and the level of power the god has whilst in that tier.

We know there are mini scales within tiers, which is why Zaros, Seren, and Guthix were all three tier 2, But Guthix had the slight upper hand powerwise, while all three could still kick every lesser god off the planet and set up their own barrier should they choose.

The only way a lower tier god could win against a higher tier is through strategy or an artefact, not a 1 on 1 Kamehameha wave like Saradomin and Zamorak tried to pull.

Which puts holes in your suggestion, those two were on the same tier yet couldn't make the other budge without divine shards in the end. They went all out and that beam didn't move an inch.

Wait, was it actually confirmed Guthix was stronger than either of the other T2 gods?

31-Aug-2016 00:27:00

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